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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#63451: Oct 9th 2016 at 12:41:01 PM

Minor nitpick: Jessica cannot fly, just jump good.

kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#63452: Oct 9th 2016 at 12:46:55 PM

[up]In the MCU anyway. In the comics, she can fly just as well as anyone else, which is probably what they were referring to.

Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#63453: Oct 9th 2016 at 12:47:43 PM

[up][up] Have they confirmed that? Because she could fly in the comics. Here she's generally as subtle as possible with her powers, and flight is usually hard to hide, so I just assumed she was avoiding using it.

Has anyone else heard the theory that Jessica and Luke have opposite powers? What I mean is that sometimes it seems like Jessica has super strength plus the Required Secondary Super-Toughness to keep from ripping her muscles off her bones, while Luke is invulnerable with the minor side benefit that he can use his full strength without the unconscious limiters normal people have to keep from ripping their muscles off their bones.

Half-[nja]'ed

edited 9th Oct '16 12:49:01 PM by Discar

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#63454: Oct 9th 2016 at 12:55:18 PM

Luke most definitely has super strength. I wasn't aware the Jessica can fly in the comics. I just assumed all those times she moved upwards out of a scene, she just just super-jumping to the roof of a nearby building.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#63455: Oct 9th 2016 at 12:59:06 PM

Or someone else just took over after Killian's death.

You don't really get to keep being a company after the public finds out that your CEO attempted to assassinate the President of the United States as part of a False Flag terrorist attack in order to disguise how shitty your products are.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#63456: Oct 9th 2016 at 12:59:46 PM

[up][up]The thing is that it's hard to define super strength in this series. Captain America is peak human and can hold back a godsdamn helicopter. I can believe that Luke is just 1.5 times stronger than a normal human since he doesn't have the normal limiters. I don't remember him doing anything that is completely outside the human norm, strength-wise.

edited 9th Oct '16 12:59:57 PM by Discar

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#63457: Oct 9th 2016 at 1:00:15 PM

[up]x3 I don't think Jessica can fly on the show, or at least, she doesn't know she can. It goes hand in hand with her being a reluctant superhero— she doesn't really test the limits of her powers that often. So she can totally jump hella high, but if she can fly, she doesn't know how yet. I mean, hovering suspended in midair has gotta be entirely different from just using the superstrength in her legs.

Also, jumping offscreen and then landing from out of frame is a lot cheaper and easier to film.

edited 9th Oct '16 1:01:20 PM by Unsung

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#63458: Oct 9th 2016 at 1:07:26 PM

Maybe that can be a character arc for Jessica in Defenders: embracing her heroic side and learning how to fly.

Falrinn Since: Dec, 2014
#63459: Oct 9th 2016 at 1:08:23 PM

[up]x4

If AIM resurfaces in the MCU, my guess is that it will be under all new management after it's assets and trademarks were acquired by a new owner in the process of AIM being liquidated.

Tying this all back to The Defenders, I don't see a scenario where IGH was always AIM, but I could definitely see IGH being the new owners of AIM if that's a direction Marvel wants to go in.

edited 9th Oct '16 1:08:42 PM by Falrinn

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#63460: Oct 9th 2016 at 1:14:10 PM

[up][up]That'd be a great arc for her. I mean that. Both the flying itself and what it would signify for her as a person.

[up]If it is Monica Rappaccini, which is still a big if, then her being a long-term industry insider with a biochemistry background would make sense for someone who either survived the fall of AIM or had already jumped ship. IGH has been around at least since Jessica was in her mid-teens. Who knows what it was before then? It could have broken off from AIM years ago. The MCU does love its twist reveals.

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#63461: Oct 9th 2016 at 1:15:40 PM

I always interpreted the MCU Jessica as being able to fly, but being consistently coy about it.

kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#63462: Oct 9th 2016 at 1:16:48 PM

[up]x6 Eh, maybe, but in the comics at least, he's about as strong as Spiderman; not ridiculously strong, but enough to do some damage.

edited 9th Oct '16 1:17:13 PM by kkhohoho

RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#63463: Oct 9th 2016 at 1:20:19 PM

I don't remember him doing anything that is completely outside the human norm, strength-wise.

Well, he's able to do stuff like grab a man with one hand by the waistband and fling him over his shoulder so hard he goes flying fifteen feet through a glass window. Or crush guns in his bare hands, or kick down a steel gate with a single blow. He's way outside the normal human range. To say nothing of when he utterly wrecks a moving car by standing in front of it and bracing himself.

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#63464: Oct 9th 2016 at 1:25:34 PM

You could even lead up to it with Jessica comparatively being The Load in big fights, not having anywhere near as much fighting skill as Matt or Danny, or even close to the durability of Luke, until she learns how to fly, develops a stronger sense of heroism, and becomes the Defender's Flying Brick.

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#63465: Oct 9th 2016 at 1:27:52 PM

[up][up]The effortlessness with which Luke uses his superstrength is one of my favourite parts of his series. It's always the little things that get me, too. During the convenience store robbery, there's the offhanded way he knocks out the guy who only realizes who he is halfway through rushing him, and Luke just gives the other guy a light tap to the top of the head with his fingers and drops him. There's a sense in which Luke is constantly holding back, because he actually *does* know his own strength. I love that.

[up]I always assumed Jessica would be the strongest physically, once she gets her act together, but she has no fighting skill at all, and that shows. I hope that ends up being the case. The late-season fight between her and Luke in JJ makes that a little less clear, but then again she's trying *not* to kill him.

edited 9th Oct '16 1:49:59 PM by Unsung

RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#63466: Oct 9th 2016 at 1:30:26 PM

Yeah, I really like the sheer casualness with which Luke fights. I noticed is even in Jessica Jones - he doesn't bother to dodge or move around much, because why would he? He doesn't even throw particularly good punches, because again why would he? A tap on the noggin with the heel of his fist is enough to do for most ordinary people. He just stands there completely ignoring people's attempts to hurt him, while swatting them away like flies.

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#63467: Oct 9th 2016 at 1:38:00 PM

AIM was never a big company to begin with, more like some sort of Think tank, and no think tank can really work without the necessarily minds and funding. And the biggest "funder" out there is the government, which will certainly not set aside money for an organisation which tried to kill the president. What was left of AIM, Shield cleaned up in season 1, and if there is still something along the line out there, it would be an undercover organisation. Hammer Tech is different because it is a big producing company and someone can run the company while Justin Hammer is in prison. Whoever that is obviously does a really good job considering that Hammer tech never worked that well. (Plus, Justin Hammer is in prison for his involvement in breaking out Vanko and letting him work on the drones, but it is not like he actually participated in Vanko's plan, so whatever his sentences is, it is not for life, not with the kind of lawyers he can afford).

The most superpowered thing Luke has done so far was being able to keep up with Jessica in the strength department, and Jessica is able to stop a slow moving car, so he should be slightly stronger than normal, but not Cap level.

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#63468: Oct 9th 2016 at 1:40:27 PM

[up][up]Exactly. It's something we don't get to see on film very often lately, where so often all the effort goes into making fights fair— we often miss out on those long, loving scenes dedicated to showing how much the hero outmatches the bad guys. But it's these lopsided fights that are actually the most memorable. People don't talk about Daredevil fighting Kingpin nearly as much as they do the hallway fight. Likewise, I couldn't really call out key moments of Luke Cage's big faceoff with Diamondback, at least not off the top of my head, but I do remember him busting into the Crispus Attucks building with a car door, flipping Domingo's guys over the ropes in his gym— and Luke being hunted through the streets by a madman with a sniper rifle loaded with the only ammunition that can actually hurt him.

edited 9th Oct '16 2:04:54 PM by Unsung

nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#63469: Oct 9th 2016 at 1:41:30 PM

I loved how the device that transformed him was meant to be much like The Cradle, by accelerating healing. But it got Turned Up To Eleven and healed him back to.......2000% health. [lol]

edited 9th Oct '16 1:42:13 PM by nervmeister

DeathsApprentice The Ultimate Lifeform from The Ark Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
The Ultimate Lifeform
#63470: Oct 9th 2016 at 1:42:03 PM

I just love that Luke's fighting style is basically "being annoyed." Fights are just pesky annoyances for him. If people would leave him alone, they wouldn't get hurt so badly, but noooo. tongue

When we're done, there won't be anything left.
RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#63471: Oct 9th 2016 at 1:42:25 PM

[up][up][up][up] Again, Luke was able to completely wreck a fast-moving car by standing in front of it and digging in. It crashed into him and was instantly totaled, with him unharmed - and having not budged an inch, from the look of it. That's superhuman strength, plain and simple - to say nothing of all the other stuff I already mentioned, like crushing guns in his fists or effortlessly kicking down steel doors.

[up][up][up] That was a great scene, the whole thing of him storming the building with this incredibly bored look on his face, using a car door as a shield.

[up] Yeah, he always looks so tired and annoyed whenever he has to fight, it's great.

edited 9th Oct '16 1:44:32 PM by RBluefish

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
dantecito Since: Dec, 2014
#63472: Oct 9th 2016 at 1:43:24 PM

"Discar" It's kidding, The Captain America is a super-human.

The stronger "normal" human is Black Widow.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#63473: Oct 9th 2016 at 2:00:01 PM

I think how memorable a fight scene is has a lot to do with the way it is built up. And the Hallway scenes in the Netflix shows are partly that memorable because Netflix basically uses them as character defining moment. Daredevil has this "take on all the guys while becoming more and more tired but prevailing through pure stubbornness" thing going on (plus, he apparently wanted to fight those guys...he could have tried to sneak past them, but the cries of the child apparently triggered something in him), the Punisher's hallway scene is basically a massacre (and follows up to him getting important information), Luke Cage has this "unstoppable force" thing going on and Jessica is the only one who actually doesn't fight a villain, she is carrying hope out of the hotel in her hallway scene...and the built up to it is more psychological than anything else. And apparently Iron Fist will get his own hallway fight.

kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#63474: Oct 9th 2016 at 2:08:35 PM

[up]x7

The most superpowered thing Luke has done so far was being able to keep up with Jessica in the strength department, and Jessica is able to stop a slow moving car, so he should be slightly stronger than normal, but not Cap level.

Uh, Cap doesn't really have any super-strength. Like, at all. The closest thing he has is 'Peak Human Capability', which means he's on the level of somebody like Batman; a Bad Ass Normal and a strong one at that, but still 'normal'. Whereas somebody like Cage could probably throw a car at someone if he put some effort into it.

nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#63475: Oct 9th 2016 at 2:12:05 PM

[up]So chucking a motorcycle at high speeds into a jeep, and stopping a helicopter from lifting off with his bare hands isn't super strength in any capacity?


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