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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

RulerOfImagineverse Since: Sep, 2016
#63401: Oct 9th 2016 at 2:32:14 AM

A Dric De Psycho let me clarify. One of the or responsibilities or duties of an KL Imortal wepon from the MCU is to defeat the Hand. This opposite group is a primary enemy in general for the MCU's KL. It just so happens the last IW, Daniel Rand the IF, is an outsider. In general for the past who knows how many years IF have directly targeted the Hand. As being the latest and strongest warrior Daniel must do the same. Otherwise, he is disonouring that commitment everyother IF gave their life to. KL's people hence take pride in it and much like the comics this Daniel thinks IF belongs to KL foremost except unlike the comics that idea goes through some development.

"Well, I could have done without the chosen one line from the trailer. Not just because of the questionable implications there, but I am above all tired of chosen ones plots."

I think the narrator of that line meant he was literally chosen. In order to become an IF you must join a torment. It's a choice. Unless those two monks had some type of vision, chosen one played straight doesn't sound right. Sure they could have been waiting for a person with powerful potential and saw Danny had it in him, therefore he's their chosen one designed to carry a legacy. By design I mean they literally raise him up that way. But as in the Harry Potter chosen one? Don't think so sounds inappropriate.

edited 9th Oct '16 3:31:17 AM by RulerOfImagineverse

lackofsense Since: Jan, 2013
#63402: Oct 9th 2016 at 5:31:27 AM

Didn't Stick assassinate one of the Immortal Weapons in Daredevil season 1? I think that's what the kid in the shipping crate was.

hollygoolightly Since: Apr, 2012 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#63403: Oct 9th 2016 at 5:48:46 AM

I'm not sure if Black Sky is the same thing as whatever Danny is, but they definitely seem to be bad news. And it appears to be something innate, not something they are turned into at least that's how I understood it in terms of Elektra.

edited 9th Oct '16 5:50:27 AM by hollygoolightly

RulerOfImagineverse Since: Sep, 2016
#63404: Oct 9th 2016 at 6:59:45 AM

I will tell you what an Immortal Weapon is later, but for now no Black Sky is a separate "weapon". Although many fans here aren't sure what exactly the Black Sky is because the world building towards it hasn't had much exposition or plot dramatic scenes emphasizing its purpose if we look at the comics the closet equivalent assumption is a host for Beast of the Hand: a supernatural eninity. Daredevil Season 2 tried to put a spin on the Milk of the Beast, how it changes people, except if you don't know anything about the comics you end up confused. There's are no explanations. Just unusual stuff that later must be built upon. Elektra esstionally becomes an uber conduit for a "devil".

In general, Iron Fist protect KL from such creatures in the IFS. Immortal Weapons most importantly determine when and where their city appear on Earth.

edited 9th Oct '16 7:16:29 AM by RulerOfImagineverse

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#63405: Oct 9th 2016 at 8:04:26 AM

Honestly, what confused me the most about the whole Black Sky story is if the Hand is actually able to pull people back from the dead, why didn't it do it with any of the previous Black Skys the Chaste killed?

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#63406: Oct 9th 2016 at 8:07:02 AM

Because it seems as if the Black Sky is something different from a normal human.

Although, they do seem to be bringing Elektra back from the dead.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#63407: Oct 9th 2016 at 8:11:02 AM

Depending on how they're killed it might not be possible. Nobu is treated as Deader than Dead after being decapitated. It seems like they can only survive if their brain is intact and attached to their body.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#63408: Oct 9th 2016 at 8:30:28 AM

And exactly there is my problem...I don't care if they use some mystic stuff or drugs for whatever they do, but I need to know the rules. And the rules aren't really explained in Daredevil at all.

Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#63409: Oct 9th 2016 at 8:38:57 AM

Yep. In the first season, it worked, because they were minor background villains. We forgave Nobu's ninja costume for a similar reason. In the second, they came to the forefront, but nothing was explained, and they doubled down on the whole ninja thing.

I think the worst part was where Stick admitted he didn't even know what a Black Sky did. Just a vague "the Hand wants them, we need to stop them." It would have been better if he told a story about how the first time the Hand activated one, the Chaste barely managed to kill it by sacrificing half their number. Or something.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#63410: Oct 9th 2016 at 8:44:55 AM

I don't know how much it would have helped but I think adding a bit of racial diversity to the Hand wouldn't have been a bad idea either. They might have started in Japan but they seem to be a global organization now. Why are all of them Japanese people? We don't see much of the Chaste but they're not all one ethnicity.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#63411: Oct 9th 2016 at 9:06:34 AM

What about that one woman, who seemed to be a high-ranking member of Hand, and wasn't Asian?

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#63412: Oct 9th 2016 at 9:13:42 AM

You mean the lady on the bus? I thought she was an Asian lady with dyed hair. It's a bit tough for me to tell.

edited 9th Oct '16 9:14:01 AM by Kostya

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#63413: Oct 9th 2016 at 9:45:21 AM

I think she was white, but regardless, she's only one.

Oh God! Natural light!
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#63415: Oct 9th 2016 at 10:14:32 AM

In the season 2 finale Karen, Turk, and a bunch of people are abducted by the Hand and taken to a warehouse on a bus. The Hand member in charge is a lady with red hair.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#63416: Oct 9th 2016 at 10:17:09 AM

A white woman?

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#63418: Oct 9th 2016 at 10:18:20 AM

So one white woman. Out of god knows how many evil Asians.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#63419: Oct 9th 2016 at 10:21:19 AM

How many members of the Hand ninjas did we actually see the faces of? Like, 2? Nobu, and that kid that Elektra killed. It seems a bit presumptuous to assume the race of all the Mooks.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#63420: Oct 9th 2016 at 10:21:20 AM

Okay, so one higher up is white. The generic mooks are still entirely Asian people. Danny not being Asian is just adding fuel to the fire.

[up]We don't see their whole face but it looks like pretty much all the mooks have epicanthic folds. That means they're probably Asian.

edited 9th Oct '16 10:22:35 AM by Kostya

hollygoolightly Since: Apr, 2012 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#63421: Oct 9th 2016 at 10:23:58 AM

Thank you for the explanation, @Rulerof Imagineverse. I hate it when shows stay vague on that sort of thing.

I think the worst part was where Stick admitted he didn't even know what a Black Sky did. Just a vague "the Hand wants them, we need to stop them." It would have been better if he told a story about how the first time the Hand activated one, the Chaste barely managed to kill it by sacrificing half their number. Or something.

It probably would have made Stick look a little less like an asshole, although they were admittedly trying so little, I'm still not sure they weren't trying to turn him into a deconstruction of the typical mentor figure. As it stands now, he's both a jerk and a child murderer.

[up] Isn't there also one guy with the Hand who is having second thoughts, and that person is also white? This is really not getting any better.

edited 9th Oct '16 10:27:00 AM by hollygoolightly

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#63422: Oct 9th 2016 at 10:25:09 AM

I'll be honest, as a person of Asian descent, the ninjas all being Japanese bothers me considerably less than the fact that none of them have discernible personalities or lines— there's no low-level mid-boss type characters, which all the other gangs had, and Nobu has less character here than in the first season. Though frankly very few of the crowd fights worked all that well anyway, and I'd have preferred more focus on characters like Nobu and Elektra as opposed to more generic waves of silent assassins.

edited 9th Oct '16 10:30:37 AM by Unsung

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#63423: Oct 9th 2016 at 10:27:46 AM

Yeah, I wish they gave Nobu more of a focus and personality. Perhaps have flashbacks to how he was inducted into the Hand or how he was resurrected the first time. It would have made him more three-dimensional.

Hell, Madame Gao is more three-dimensional than Nobu and she speaks in riddles.

hollygoolightly Since: Apr, 2012 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#63424: Oct 9th 2016 at 10:32:33 AM

Yeah, it bothered me in Season 1 that Nobu was the only one of Fisk's criminal colleagues who had little to no personality. The Russian brothers were stereotypical as hell, but at least they got spotlight and at least something of an arc. And although Madame Gao is hardly less clichéd she's also a badass old lady who was even feared by the Big Bad. I think if Nobu got a similar treatment, and we had a couple of Asian characters who were simply normal, and not ninja or opium runners, the situation would be a little less awkward.

(Alliterator [nja]'d me.)

edited 9th Oct '16 10:33:35 AM by hollygoolightly

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#63425: Oct 9th 2016 at 10:34:56 AM

I'm not sure where they could have put it but Nobu getting an origins episode like Fisk did probably would have been a good idea. It would show him as more of a character and could provide valuable insight into the Hand without providing the protagonists with too much information.

edit: Isn't there speculation that Gao is an Early-Bird Cameo for the Iron Fist series?

edited 9th Oct '16 10:35:35 AM by Kostya


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