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Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
Depends on whether you define Dare Devil's second season as lightning in a bottle. That bottle had some cracks in it and a lot of people got burned as a result.
They're going to need to put a lot of effort into Iron Fist to overcome the significant problems embedded in its premise, which are especially visible to the audience they've cultivated with Jessica Jones and Luke Cage.
edited 4th Oct '16 7:48:17 AM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.So is Danny Rand. Difference is, we still got half a season where we could ignore The Hand. They weren't the main characters.
edited 4th Oct '16 7:55:58 AM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.Iron Fist's arch-enemy, the Steel Serpent, is also a bonafide Anti-Villain (he's a more redeemable version of Tai Lung basically) Tragic Villain who is Asian, and given the amount of praise Netflix villains have gotten, that might help.
He also has a Heel–Face Turn in the most praised and most famous Iron Fist comic arc in the character's history (though later writers reverted that), so they might do the same here.
"All you Fascists bound to lose."Well it is always possible to have more than one archenemy. Spider-Man for example is often said to have several, but most famously both Doctor Octopus and Venom tend to be given the title of "Spider-Man's archenemy".
Master Khan might be the Doc Ock of this analogy whilst Steel Serpent is the Venom.
I do think Steel Serpent kind of took over as his archfoe though. For a brief example, if you search "Iron Fist's arch enemy" on google, most results are for Steel Serpent.
edited 4th Oct '16 8:21:06 AM by Gaon
"All you Fascists bound to lose."He'd be the other guy given the title of Spider-Man's arch-enemy.
Like I said, Spider-Man has more arch-enemies than he has love interests. You can't throw a brick in his rogues gallery without hitting an archenemy.
edited 4th Oct '16 8:26:05 AM by Gaon
"All you Fascists bound to lose."The Netflix shows are great, but they all (perhaps with the notable exception of Jessica Jones) have one big problem: They all work of the assumption that there has to be some big physical fight in the end. In Daredevil season 1 Fisk bombing the neighbourhood and luring Daredevil into a trap was way more dramatic than his actual take down, in season 2 the arc with the Punisher was great but the Hand felt tacked on and only there to ensure that there could be enough fight scenes (which got boring pretty fast, the talk with Punisher on the rooftop was better than any of the fights) and in Luke Cage...well, those who have seen the whole show will know what I mean.
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That doesn't mean other characters aren't his archenemies either. Consider for example the fact that Superior Spider Man is far more major a storyline and personally impactful on Peter's life than anything Goblin has done lately. Different time periods and writers have play up different characters as archenemies.
This is especially true of Spider Man, who has always had something of a "chain" of his most major enemies before settling on a Big Three (well, Big Two now - I don't think Eddie's as prominent as he used to be).
edited 4th Oct '16 9:53:37 AM by KnownUnknown
It could also significantly hurt, because it only enhances the problem inherent in the Mighty Whitey setup. The characters you describe are essentially Danny's mentor, his sidekick, and his archnemesis. All key roles for supporting Mighty Whitey on his journey to master Asia.
The problem with Mighty Whitey isn't that Asians aren't allowed to exist. That's an issue in the MCU in general, mind you, but with the Mighty Whitey setup, the problem is that they aren't allowed to be leads in stories about them and their culture.
Having amazing actors playing amazing characters in this context is better than not having them at all, but it still leaves the problem of, "Look at these great Asian actors in roles where they work diligently to help Danny to master their culture, strike down the Yellow Peril, and prove that the White Man is truly the greatest Asian of all."
Indeed, the better and more well-received they and their characters are, the more people are going to ask, "Why can't this just be THEIR story? Why does this have to be about some white guy?"
edited 4th Oct '16 9:54:56 AM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.Agreed.
Ultimately, the issue here is that Mighty Whitey is a setup where no matter how well you try to execute it, it can never fix the glaring flaw, because the fundamental problem with the trope is that it exists. With this kind of story design, the only way to win is not to play.
edited 4th Oct '16 9:58:02 AM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.![]()
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Again, Danny being the "black sheep" of the Immortal Weapons doesn't mean he'll automatically be the best in terms of power/skill. The only thing you really have against him is that he's the viewpoint character (see The Forbidden Kingdom).
edited 4th Oct '16 10:07:22 AM by nervmeister
I don't think it matters whether he's necessarily the best - it's that he's the protagonist, and that means that he's the one who'll defeat the Big Bad, unless you want to have someone else do it, which would make one wonder why they weren't the one who was the protagonist.
edited 4th Oct '16 10:27:41 AM by KarkatTheDalek
Oh God! Natural light!Mighty Whitey is something that's as much about narrative structure and focus as it is about in-universe levels of comparative power or competence. The main character in a story is the one to whom is ascribed the highest level of focus, development, exposure, and general-purpose importance. And by pure coincidence, they also tend to be the only white person in the entire country.
Even if he isn't demonstrated to be more powerful than the Asian practitioners (and there's a decent chance that'll happen in some capacity anyway), then we're faced with the problem of the boring rich white guy who's far less competent than the Asian people...still being deemed more worthy of being the main character than the Asian people are.
So as Tobias says, even if they do load the coast with awesome, interesting Asian characters, and even if they do prove themselves more kickass than Danny, then that'll just exacerbate the problem in many respects. "This character is more interesting, more complex, more competent, more representative of the world we live in, and less appropriative...so why aren't they the main character instead of that one guy from Game of Thrones?"
"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."A character being the protagonist doesn't necessarily mean they have to defeat the Big Bad (they can have some other conflict with someone closer to their power level be where the emotional stakes are), but otherwise I agree with what everyone else has been saying.
I...can't say that I'm terribly interested in Iron Fist, to be quite frank. If Marvel had racelifted him to actually be asian, then I'd be game, but since they didn't I have a hard time mustering up interest.
edited 4th Oct '16 10:37:15 AM by Draghinazzo
Now, if we are introduced to the Steel Serpent later and he becomes the Big Bad, that might be problematic. But in the comics, the Steel Serpent wavered back and forth as a villain and anti-villain, eventually trying to redeem himself, which could really work in this context. Having him be the person who resents Danny for being a white Iron Fist and make him sympathetic, eventually showing him trying for redemption. That could definitely work.
Of course, I'm not really sure what other villains Iron Fist could have. Bushmaster? Constrictor? I guess Master Khan could work, since he's not technically Asian either, but he is an eldritch being that wants blood sacrifices. As long as they redesign him, I guess he could work.

Not lying here, my first thought when Claire mentioned the great Lawyer she knows was "wait, she hasn't meet Hogarth yet" and then I remembered Foggy before realizing that she is most likely talking about Matt.
edited 4th Oct '16 3:59:59 AM by Swanpride