TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Marvel Cinematic Universe

Go To

Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#62826: Sep 28th 2016 at 7:12:51 PM

I'm optimistic that this will turn out ok, for reasons that have already been stated.

I haven't seen Coogler's films but my understanding is that he's held in fairly high regard when it comes to these types of issues, so I'm not that concerned.

nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#62827: Sep 28th 2016 at 7:13:17 PM

[up][up][up][up][up][up]Not referring to you, Blue. Just those who are going to do their damnedest to make this "biting controversy" front page news.

edited 28th Sep '16 7:14:42 PM by nervmeister

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#62828: Sep 28th 2016 at 7:13:18 PM

Then turn him into a politician with no ape connections.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#62829: Sep 28th 2016 at 7:14:00 PM

I haven't seen any of his films except Creed but that was pretty great. I'm guessing the movie will turn out okay although I could see a few potential issues.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#62830: Sep 28th 2016 at 7:14:42 PM

I mean, the guy who brought M'Baku back and really fleshed him out and gave him a sympathetic motivation was a black guy. And Ta-Nehisi Coates has incorporated the White Gorilla tribe into the Midnight Angels subplot in his current series. It's not an automatic racist blow for him to be cast, not nearly as bad as them doing something like getting the rights back to Fu Manchu for a Shang-Chi solo series or something.

Like others have said, and we've had this conversation before, they can focus on the ultraconservativism, secessionism, and exploration of the dark side of Wakandan culture and its tendencies for religious extremism and vigilantism that the king can't control or punish effectively. Just avoid actually calling him the Man-Ape, dressing him in a gorilla costume, or referring to the Jabari tribe as the White Gorilla cult. I'd say as far as being stereotypical goes he's got a lot of breadth to make a Pragmatic Adaptation of. If people think the Mandarin can be made palatable then so can he.

The biggest issue I have with the casting is the movie might be saturated with villains between Killmonger, Nakia, and him. Unless he's only here as an Early-Bird Cameo similar to how T'Challa was in Civil War. As for the casting, good to see them looking among the lower echelons for new blood. When it comes to Hollywood I'm worried their current approach to black roles is having more black characters but relying on the same small pool of A-listers for themnote  similar to W Ill Smith and Jackie Chan syndrome. It's good to see they haven't given up on the Hemsworth and Pratt approach.

edited 28th Sep '16 7:25:31 PM by AlleyOop

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#62831: Sep 28th 2016 at 7:14:43 PM

The actor is 6'6 (holy shit) so it's safe to say he will be seeing some action.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#62832: Sep 28th 2016 at 7:17:19 PM

Fuck, that's taller than me.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#62833: Sep 28th 2016 at 7:18:10 PM

@Kostya: I can understand the issue. I'm just explaining the character and why they chose him. People seemed to already assume the character shouldn't be in the film because of the problematic Man-Ape aspect. I'm explaining why they're using him: In short, he's a great Foil to Panther who happens to have a gorilla theme due comic book shenanigans (like everyone being themed after animals).

They can, and they should, adapt him into something less problematic. I wouldn't go as far as removing the gorilla element altogether, but they can just tone it down to him wearing a Evil Knockoff of Panther's costume except with a gorilla theme, or using a mecha suit vaguely resembling a gorilla (like recent comics kind of did), or even just have him be a scary, muscular guy whose personal symbol is a gorilla.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#62834: Sep 28th 2016 at 7:18:38 PM

Here's a suggestion, make film!Baku a second Killian.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#62835: Sep 28th 2016 at 7:19:05 PM

Harambe Man.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#62836: Sep 28th 2016 at 7:21:49 PM

If M'baku just has a white suit of power armor then they're probably fine. Just avoid anything distinctly gorilla like about it.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#62837: Sep 28th 2016 at 7:28:47 PM

I think Falrinn has the right idea regarding incorporating the white gorilla elements (if they retain them). They're important to his iconography so as stereotypical as it could be I'm hesitant on them eliminating it entirely, but that way you can retain it in a way that empowers the character without being embarrassing.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#62838: Sep 28th 2016 at 7:30:01 PM

As everyone else has said, keep the Gorilla motif as far away from him as possible, and emphasize all the other shit about him and it's all good.

One Strip! One Strip!
nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#62839: Sep 28th 2016 at 7:35:47 PM

[up][up]I'll admit, that creepy gorilla skull attached to that power armor in that one pic looked wicked cool. So as long as they make it look something like that instead of like that cheapass-looking costume I usually see in the comics, I think it wont invite too much controversy.

edited 28th Sep '16 7:36:27 PM by nervmeister

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#62840: Sep 28th 2016 at 7:51:54 PM

I'm surprised it took them this long to announce him. As noted, for the point where T'Challa and Wakanda are, M'Baku is the perfect villain. For a while I was thinking they were going to rewrite Killmonger to take M'Baku's role.

We've talked lots of times about ways to make him not problematic, and it's not that hard. He doesn't have to dress like an ape to be a militaristic traditionalist from an old family who wants to overthrow T'Challa for opening the country up to outsiders. Make him a General, show his brutality by having him show off an ape skin in his office or home and brag that he killed and skinned with his bare hands - a perfect contrast to the more restrained and respectful-of-life T'Challa.

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#62841: Sep 28th 2016 at 8:04:00 PM

Thorny is the word, yes.

I'm torn as to whether the controversy should be sidestepped altogether or taken head on. Maybe a superhero movie isn't the venue for it, but ignoring that kind of entrenched racism doesn't seem likely to make it go away any faster. Regardless, I wasn't worried about a lack of sensitivity about the subject matter based on what I'd seen/heard/read before now from Ryan Coogler and Chadwick Boseman. This hasn't changed that.

Having M'Baku as a traditionalist politician who's also a friend/rival (or both) to T'Challa, though, that could work nicely as a slow build, too. I half-wondered— given the late news of his casting— if they might be setting him up as a villain, or something more complicated than a villain, for a sequel. Having an entire fictional country and a hero who is its king seems rife with potential, a different kind of political thriller from the Captain America movies. Especially with the volatile political undercurrents we're seeing. When the Russos mentioned Civil War just being the start, I wonder if Black Panther is not central to that.

...or maybe M'Baku is stepping into the part of the story that was originally meant for Klaw? Somebody was mentioning that Andy Serkis hadn't been confirmed. Maybe that was rewritten?

edited 28th Sep '16 8:42:25 PM by Unsung

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#62842: Sep 28th 2016 at 8:40:35 PM

They said the plot of the BP film would be driven by two villains teaming up together. I figured it was going to be Killmonger and Nakia, but now it's shaping up to be Killmonger and M'Baku. I don't think Serkis has been confirmed for BP yet, and I don't know if he even needs to. After all his presence in AOU was a whim of Whedon's rather than a conscious Call-Forward.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#62843: Sep 28th 2016 at 8:41:35 PM

I love Gorillas, they are one of my favorite animals, in temperment, posture, size, and sheer strength. I would love a Gorilla-themed character as a villain in a Marvel movie. I am making a conscious choice to ignore any and all racially discriminatory connections between black people and non-Human primates in favor of focusing on how awesome Gorillas and Gorilla-themed characters are.

RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#62844: Sep 28th 2016 at 8:44:41 PM

Do we have any idea yet who Nyong'o and Gurira are going to be playing in the movie? I seem to recall them saying that Nyong'o is going to be playing a villain of some sort - which is actually unexpected for me, since I was expecting her to be the love interest. And I know everybody's expecting Gurira to be a member of the Dora Milaje - but do we have anything official?

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#62845: Sep 28th 2016 at 8:44:58 PM

[up]They are awsome indeed, but the racist stuff make it dificult to used and it will come as jarring, best they ditch that part or used the whole "he JUST happen to have a Gorilla mofit somewhere....that all" is better for everyone

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#62846: Sep 28th 2016 at 8:52:29 PM

I mean, if they ditch the gorilla motif, then he's not Man-Ape, he's just a facsimile made specifically for the movie. Otherwise, would there even be a point to specifying that Man-Ape is going to be in the movie?

edited 28th Sep '16 8:53:30 PM by Ssj3Gojira

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
ComicFan Since: Sep, 2016
#62847: Sep 28th 2016 at 9:11:58 PM

[up][up][up] Lupita is playing Nakia but I doubt she'll be a villain when the movie already has three, The Wrap is confirming Serkis will return. Maybe in a sequel but not now. Gurira will be playing Okoye who will be the leader of the Dora Milaje in the movie.

RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#62848: Sep 28th 2016 at 9:26:42 PM

Thanks.

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#62849: Sep 28th 2016 at 11:13:08 PM

This movie is likely going to be Nakia's Start of Darkness, with her being a good guy for its run rather than her being an actual villain. Which, now that I think about it, the MCU has yet to actually do.

edited 28th Sep '16 11:13:44 PM by KnownUnknown

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#62850: Sep 28th 2016 at 11:19:29 PM

From what I've seen of Dr. Strange so far it seems like they're setting up Mordo in that kind of role.


Total posts: 186,763
Top