TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Marvel Cinematic Universe

Go To

Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#62726: Sep 28th 2016 at 9:14:25 AM

That seems like it'd be a bit of a slap in the face after all this time.

I kinda wanna see them use Atlas or Egghead.

nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#62727: Sep 28th 2016 at 9:18:25 AM

[up]The scenario could end happily if they can reverse what happened to her. Maybe by successfully manipulating the quantum realm, a place where "time has no meaning" to "rewind" her back to her human form. Anyways, I think "Jocasta Van Dyne" would be a good antagonist. It would be the best spiritual nod possible to both Ultron and villain Hank (both as Yellowjacket and as a fused form of himself and Ultron),

edited 28th Sep '16 9:27:11 AM by nervmeister

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#62728: Sep 28th 2016 at 9:22:58 AM

What? I don't want evil Janet! I just want Janet! There aren't enough female heroes in the MCU as it is...especially not enough who don't fall into the "badass fighter" category.

edited 28th Sep '16 9:24:44 AM by Swanpride

nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#62729: Sep 28th 2016 at 9:26:27 AM

[up]And you'll get her - only in a more Darth Vader-ish sort of way. Come on. It's an awesome idea. And like I said, she doesn't have to die at the end. Marvel can easily set it up so she can be cured via Science and become "Wasp Sr." once again. Or maybe, she stays in her Jocasta form, but comes to her senses through willpower and joins up with the Avengers.

edited 28th Sep '16 9:51:25 AM by nervmeister

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#62731: Sep 28th 2016 at 9:44:35 AM

Marvel already has a Jocasta. It's another one of Stark's AI programs like J.A.R.V.I.S. and F.R.I.D.A.Y. We see it briefly during Age of Ultron when Stark's picking out his new AI to replace J.A.R.V.I.S.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#62732: Sep 28th 2016 at 9:47:20 AM

[up]Doesn't really go past easter egg and into set-up. Besides, quantum Janet doesn't need to be called "Jocasta" in-universe.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#62733: Sep 28th 2016 at 9:51:36 AM

So is calling Janet "Jocasta". She's not Jocasta. She's never been Jocasta. Jocasts is not a superhero alter-ego, it's a robot. So if she has nothing to do with the comic version of Jocasta and she isn't called Jocasta then she's not Jocasta.

That's essentially taking an In Name Only adaptation and removing the Name.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#62734: Sep 28th 2016 at 9:55:01 AM

[up]And I suppose Fake-darin, Baron Zemo, Stark-Tron, and whatever kind of mishmash Darren Cross is are all more spot-on adaptations than that? Emil Blonsky is NEVER called "Abomination" (even Sterns only uses the word to describe what could go wrong; not as a codename proper). So it's fair and dandy.

edited 28th Sep '16 9:58:22 AM by nervmeister

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#62735: Sep 28th 2016 at 9:57:39 AM

By definition, yes, because they are actually called the Mandarin, Zemo, and Ultron. Even if we discount the fact that they're actually pretty decent adaptations, an In Name Only adaptation would still be a more accurate adaptation than a Nothing-To-Do-With-The-Character-Not-Even-The-Name one.

She's not Jocasta, she doesn't look or act or share even the remotest similar trait to Jocasta, and she's not called Jocasta. In what way would this constitute an adaptation of Jocasta?

Jimmy Olsen from BVS was a more accurate representation of the character than that.

edited 28th Sep '16 9:59:20 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#62736: Sep 28th 2016 at 10:02:59 AM

I still think the "villain" of Ant Man and the Wasp should be Hank himself, and his increasingly obsessive attempts to bring Janet back which cause increasingly dramatic problems, with the idea that he succeeds at the serious risk of (figuratively) losing his soul, Mr. Freeze style.

The key is to have him legitimately go through Sanity Slippage and have him remain sympathetic throughout, rather than doing the bit where they reveal he was Evil All Along or simply throw him into the supervillain character type or something along those lines (which, admittedly, the MCU and Superhero movies in general aren't that great at doing).

edited 28th Sep '16 10:05:12 AM by KnownUnknown

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#62737: Sep 28th 2016 at 10:04:21 AM

Yeah I'm really not seeing any reason to wreck Jan like other than they can.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#62738: Sep 28th 2016 at 10:09:40 AM

I also would like to see Hank as the surprise villain of the next movie. Not that I would be surprised, I keep expecting it to happen anyway, but the general audience might be fooled by this kind of twist.

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#62739: Sep 28th 2016 at 10:13:22 AM

[up][up][up][nja]

If they do rescue Janet, then I'd expect something more like How To Train Your Dragon 2, where she's not really evil, just...changed. Between Janet and her husband, I'd actually expect Hank to be the one to go off the deep end, losing his grip in his desperation to bring her back, possibly going mad himself as he searches the quantum realm for her. There's precedent for Hank Pym being consumed by his past mistakes, and this Hank in particular seems to have a real weakness for his family.

I also wouldn't be surprised to see some version of Egghead. Wasn't framing Ant-Man for treason at one point his greatest success? Given that Scott's already an international fugitive right now...

This would be another good one for Taskmaster. I'd also like to see the Ghost. Maybe we could also have Eric O'Grady (Irredeemable Ant-Man) turn up in some capacity.

edited 28th Sep '16 10:38:36 AM by Unsung

nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#62740: Sep 28th 2016 at 10:13:38 AM

@Tobias Drake

You know what? How dare you say Aldrich Killian (the scientist who fucking killed himself in the comics) and some Sokovian operative (who'd have been better off as an original character like Pierce) are better spiritual adaptations than my proposal. HOW DARE YOU. My adaptation beats those by a country mile! I shouldn't be typing this hard, but I'm absolutely bewildered you turn your nose up at my idea while being all gaga for ZINO and IM 3's April Fool's joke.

EDIT: Jimmy Olsen!? JIMMY OLSEN!!!? I dont- I dont even-.........**takes deep breath** Tobias, I will get over this and continue to enjoy conversing with you, but right now you are killing me. You know that scene from E.T. where the alien turns pale with his life signs failing. That's what I'm going through now after what I've just heard from you. Do you hate E.T, Tobias? Do you hate love, kittens and brilliant adaptations from your's truly. **starts to cry** sad

edited 28th Sep '16 10:23:39 AM by nervmeister

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#62742: Sep 28th 2016 at 10:21:22 AM

Okay... let's calm down a bit.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#62744: Sep 28th 2016 at 10:26:11 AM

Pierce wasn't an original character.

nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#62745: Sep 28th 2016 at 10:30:59 AM

[up]Just got back from Comicvine. Yep. Looks like I slipped up a bit. Pierce is yet another (very loosely) adapted character. Though a tad more accurate than Zemo.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#62746: Sep 28th 2016 at 10:32:56 AM

It is a shame how they adapted Zemo.

I for one wanted to see a dude who accidentally glued a mask to his own face terrorize New York with super glue.

Pretty good adaptation of his son's mastermindy tendencies though.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#62747: Sep 28th 2016 at 10:35:14 AM

You never know, he's still alive. He's locked up, but we all know how effective supervillain prisons always end up being. He actually might end up getting something glued or burned on to his face later down the line.

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#62748: Sep 28th 2016 at 10:35:48 AM

He does mention his father (although not whether or not his father was a Nazi or with Hydra), but the guy in Civil War is Helmut.

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#62749: Sep 28th 2016 at 10:36:01 AM

As far as I can tell, MCU!Pierce is a composite of three comic book characters- the comics Pierce as well as two of the Red Skulls, Aleksander Lukin (note the first name) and the more famous Skull when he used the Dell Rusk identity.

So like his SHIELD role comes from Pierce, his Villain with Good Publicity from "Rusk", and his control of the Winter Soldier from Lukin.

And with Zemo, he definitely has his counterpart's calculated planning and some of the accompanying self-regard. Also, I'm a fan of the Janice Lincoln Beetle, and from what I've read about her introduction in a Brubaker comic, Zemo was involved in a reasonably similar plot involving framing Bucky for terrorism. MCU!Zemo just has less Dickinson motives.

edited 28th Sep '16 10:38:46 AM by Hodor2

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#62750: Sep 28th 2016 at 10:37:24 AM

Jimmy Olsen was a terrible adaptation but that's my point. Literally the only thing he had going for him was that he was named Jimmy Olsen and even that was just a mean-spirited dick move by Zack Snyder.

What you describe is a Microverse-threatening Vader-style cyborg supervillain. Jocasta has no particular connection to the Microverse, is not a cyborg, and most importantly, is not a villain. The only way she'd be Jocasta is by calling her Jocasta, but then you suggested not even doing that much, which leaves her with no distinguishing characteristic marking her as Jocasta whatsoever.

Under this suggestion, like Jimmy, she would only be identifiable as Jocasta through cast interviews and maybe the credits page. And it would possibly be even more of a dick move than Zack Snyder killing off Jimmy was, because it would ruin not one but two great female protagonists - and Marvel doesn't have enough of those to spare.

You never know, he's still alive. He's locked up, but we all know how effective supervillain prisons always end up being. He actually might end up getting something glued or burned on to his face later down the line.

T'Challa all but turns a knowing smile and wink to the camera about Zemo coming back with the line, "The world is not done with you yet."

edited 28th Sep '16 10:38:36 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.

Total posts: 186,763
Top