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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#62551: Sep 23rd 2016 at 9:18:19 PM

[up] But you keep complaining that Ultron wasn't a physical match for the Avengers, even though Loki wasn't either. Loki was soundly beaten at every turn, he just managed to escape, much like Ultron.

And, again, Ultron's real power was misdirection and using the Twin's powers to tear the Avengers apart. When he lost the Twins, that's when he began losing the war. (That's also when the Avengers gained Vision, which was a match for Ultron's Internet mind.)

Ultron, I think, was much creepier than Loki.

edited 23rd Sep '16 9:21:12 PM by alliterator

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#62552: Sep 23rd 2016 at 9:19:35 PM

Vibranium Ultron lasted for as long as it took before the Avengers started seriously trying to destroy it. Once they actually decide to get serious and fire at it it melts in seconds. And then to add insult to injury, he's repeatedly and effortlessly batted around by the Hulk.

edited 23rd Sep '16 9:21:02 PM by KnownUnknown

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#62553: Sep 23rd 2016 at 9:20:43 PM

And then to add insult to injury, he's repeatedly and effortlessly batted around by the Hulk.
And, again, the same thing happened to Loki. I'm not sure what the problem here is.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#62554: Sep 23rd 2016 at 9:21:11 PM

Maybe if the whole resurrected-theory turns out to be the case, the villains will experience significant Stone-related power boosts to let them do what they will. Skull has teleporting powers and energy beams, Ronan has touch of death, Ultron has the mind manipulation and fleet control powers, and so on.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#62555: Sep 23rd 2016 at 9:21:28 PM

[up][up] The context is "why Thanos bringing Ultron back to fight the Avengers as a physical threat doesn't track" - of which the list was Malekith (also questionable, as he was only a match for Thor when hopped up on Infinity Stone), Ronan and Ultron, and not Loki. It's not "which villain is more badass than the other."

Thanos has even less reason to make Loki fight the Avengers, so I'm not sure why you're using him as a comparison in the first place.

edited 23rd Sep '16 9:24:48 PM by KnownUnknown

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#62556: Sep 23rd 2016 at 9:22:34 PM

Loki wasn't even the main priority of the end fight in The Avengers. He got blown up by one of Hawkeye's arrows and then the Hulk played ragdoll with him. Like, I can see how Ultron is kinda weaksauce, with his bodies being blown up all the time, but he could always hop around into another one. Loki was more of a manipulator who set stuff in motion, he was never a physical threat for them to fight once the Chitauri invaded.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#62557: Sep 23rd 2016 at 9:24:30 PM

The context is "why Thanos bringing Ultron back to fight the Avengers as a physical threat doesn't track"
No, the context was saying that Ultron wasn't much a threat against the Avengers. And, if we're going with the previous context, then it was "Why would Thanos resurrect Ultron as well?" Nobody mentioned anything about Thanos only resurrecting physical threats. Hell, I even pointed out that he could resurrect Ultron's mind, which makes more sense because all his bodies were robotic anyway.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#62558: Sep 23rd 2016 at 9:27:27 PM

There's a theory that points out each infinity stone has been used to kill a villain (Skull, Malekith, Ronan, Ultron), so Thanos might resurrect them as part of his army.

OK, Malekith, Ronan, and Ultron have enough power to keep up with the Avengers, but unless Thanos brainwashes them or makes copies of them, I don't see how they'd work in the movie.

The first two maybe but Ultron spent the entire movie being slapped around by the Avengers. I doubt bringing him back is going to change that unless Thanos gives him a power boost.

If Thanos wants to win, he'll forget about Ultron and bring back Kurse instead.

The first is the OP. The third is the response that triggered the conversation about how strong Ultron was in comparison. It's not "Ultron wasn't a threat to the Avengers at all," it's "Ultron can't keep up with the Avengers powers wise."

edited 23rd Sep '16 9:34:19 PM by KnownUnknown

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#62559: Sep 23rd 2016 at 9:38:44 PM

If you bring one Ultron bot back, it can quickly start mass producing new bodies for itself, until it can overwhelm its opponents with sheer numbers.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#62560: Sep 23rd 2016 at 9:43:11 PM

It's not "Ultron wasn't a threat to the Avengers at all," it's "Ultron can't keep up with the Avengers powers wise."
But "powers" doesn't always mean "physical strength" as I pointed out. Ultron's "powers" were basically his mind and his ability to replicate his body over and over again.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#62561: Sep 23rd 2016 at 9:47:52 PM

True, but if he's brought back and controlled as one of Thanos' flunkies those aren't going to be things he can use, not without hijacking the plot of the movie.

edited 23rd Sep '16 9:49:25 PM by KnownUnknown

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#62562: Sep 23rd 2016 at 9:50:28 PM

But you keep complaining that Ultron wasn't a physical match for the Avengers, even though Loki wasn't either. Loki was soundly beaten at every turn, he just managed to escape, much like Ultron.

Same ingredients, different order. Loki killed Coulson first, then has his butt kicked by nearly all the heroes one by one. Ultron had his butt kicked over and over by all the heroes, then killed Quicksilver as an afterthought.

edited 23rd Sep '16 9:51:27 PM by Tuckerscreator

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#62563: Sep 23rd 2016 at 9:57:06 PM

If they all gained powers related to the stones, wouldn't they ALL gain energy blasts?

Seriously, aside from the Mind Gem brainwashing people most of the use we see the Stones get is just different-flavored energy blasts. tongue

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#62564: Sep 23rd 2016 at 10:04:24 PM

True, but if he's brought back and controlled as one of Thanos' flunkies those aren't going to be things he can use, not without hijacking the plot of the movie.
Not quite. I mean, he can still use his mind and body-duplicating powers for Thanos, especially if Thanos reprograms him.

Or (and I would love if this happened), Ultron could be resurrected by Thanos, look at everything was going on, all the Avengers and Guardians ready to try and defeat Thanos, and then go, "Bye!" and vanish. Because of all those villains, Ultron is really the one who knew when he was overpowered, which is why he kept on running away and then showing up again.

Also, then we could get Ultron for any future movies.

edited 23rd Sep '16 10:18:58 PM by alliterator

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#62565: Sep 23rd 2016 at 10:06:11 PM

What is he trying to sell to Thanos and why does he leave before Thanos can even take interest in his pitch?

edited 23rd Sep '16 10:06:31 PM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#62566: Sep 23rd 2016 at 10:09:16 PM

He isn't trying to sell anything to Thanos, Thanos would have just resurrected him via the Mind Stone in order to fight the Avengers. A theory we are talking about.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#62567: Sep 23rd 2016 at 10:10:35 PM

Ultron could be resurrected by Thanos, look at everything was going on, all the Avengers and Guardians ready to try and defeat Thanos, and then go, "Buy!" and vanish.

edited 23rd Sep '16 10:10:47 PM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#62568: Sep 23rd 2016 at 10:19:19 PM

I have no idea what you are talking about.

*whistles innocently*

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#62569: Sep 23rd 2016 at 10:22:29 PM

The past can never be completely erased, it lingers like the scent of burning wood.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#62570: Sep 23rd 2016 at 10:47:15 PM

I wonder how much of a role the accords will play in the defenders.

Anyway I like the idea of thanos pulling back villains but I doubt that he would be able to control ultron. Upside is that ultron is practically not defeat able because in order to even get the proper infinity stone thanos would have to rip it out of visions head first.

I actually had never noticed before that every infinity stone so far sucked in a villain...but then I have actually forgotten what malekith fate was. I just remember thor hacking his body into pieces.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#62571: Sep 23rd 2016 at 10:48:17 PM

Malekith's fate was being crushed by his own spaceship courtesy of Dr. Selvig.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#62572: Sep 23rd 2016 at 10:52:04 PM

Then he doesn't count I guess.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#62573: Sep 23rd 2016 at 10:56:09 PM

I have to rewatch tdw anyway after I am through with sherlock

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#62574: Sep 24th 2016 at 1:50:44 AM

Actually regarding Age of Ultron, I'm a bit bummed that Ultron didn't express any remorse for killing Quicksilver. He liked the twins and it wasn't even Pietro that he was aiming at.

It could almost contribute to a running theme of Ultron doing damage he didn't intend because of anger and impulsiveness.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#62575: Sep 24th 2016 at 6:36:52 AM

And, again, the same thing happened to Loki. I'm not sure what the problem here is.

That is true. As much as people like to complain about Ultron's "Oh, for God's sake!" moment, it's basically just his version of "Puny god."

The context is "why Thanos bringing Ultron back to fight the Avengers as a physical threat doesn't track" - of which the list was Malekith (also questionable, as he was only a match for Thor when hopped up on Infinity Stone), Ronan and Ultron, and not Loki. It's not "which villain is more badass than the other."

Issue is that Ultron is every bit as credible of a threat as Ronan, Malekith, and Red Skull. None of those characters on his or her own would be a threat to the entire Avengers organization. Not one of them. That's why the idea has them working together.

Of the four, Ultron's the most credible because he actually held his own against all the Avengers at once for a time. Red Skull and Malekith each got wrecked by a single Avenger. Ronan has been depicted as a very powerful and capable threat, but that was to a group of unpowered aliens with guns. Thor and Rocket Raccoon are not operating on the same power scale.

If you want to single out someone in this group as a weak link, it's the Red Skull. Ultron's the most formidable one Thanos would theoretically have thus far.

Not quite. I mean, he can still use his mind and body-duplicating powers for Thanos, especially if Thanos reprograms him.

Given the film's implication that Thanos's AI is partially responsible for Ultron, he probably wouldn't even need to do that. There might be a dormant subroutine in Ultron or something that immediately identifies Thanos as master.

edited 24th Sep '16 6:37:19 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.

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