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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#62426: Sep 18th 2016 at 12:10:07 PM

Hawkeye has nonpowered wife and kids.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#62427: Sep 18th 2016 at 12:38:10 PM

[up][up]Glad you two agree. Blue Marvel as a character journey has a lot of potential.

[up][up][up]As long as the story centers around him and his family relationships, and not merely his race, I'm down with that.

edited 18th Sep '16 12:44:14 PM by nervmeister

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#62428: Sep 19th 2016 at 8:37:27 AM

His race is a rather important part of his backstory, so I'd like that to be part of the story if one is ever made.

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#62429: Sep 19th 2016 at 10:03:30 AM

Going back to something earlier, I like that suggestion of Tony's appearance involving Peter getting thrown out of Stark Labs (I'm a bad fan- don't know what his company is called) when he tries to visit. Not to complain about something that hasn't happened yet, but really hoping they don't have it that Vulture and/or Shocker stole their tech from Tony. Both because he shouldn't be the only technical genius in the MCU and because it's part of Vulture's origin that Norman Osborne (I think someone else originally) ripped off his tech and an underused aspect of Shocker's character is that he's sort of like a Good Will Hunting style genius- but too lazy and unscrupulous to do something productive with his skills.

Actually, it would be kind of funny if Toombs did steal his tech from Stark but complained about Osborn stealing form him.

Speaking of Shocker, was looking last night at the costume in Homecoming and I really love it. I noticed this time around that it kind of looks like those yellow suits Walter and Jessie wore in Breaking Bad and the sunglasses over the mask give a bit of The Invisible Man to the look. So definitely a feel of "illicit science done out of one's basement".

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#62430: Sep 19th 2016 at 11:36:58 AM

The rumor is that Tinkerer is an ex Stark employee.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#62432: Sep 19th 2016 at 11:55:41 AM

His race is a rather important part of his backstory, so I'd like that to be part of the story if one is ever made.
Yeah, if one wants to be faithful to the source material, that ought to come into play at some point, though hopefully it wont overshadow everything else about him.

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#62433: Sep 19th 2016 at 12:35:13 PM

I mean, I haven't read the miniseries where Blue Marvel first appeared, but if I were making a Blue Marvel story, I think I'd adapt Ewing's Mighty Avengers material and have it be a conflict between Adam and Max about bringing Kevin home.

I'd also consider utilizing Ewing's current Ultimates run - with its stuff with Anti-Man and this "cage" around reality might make for an interesting Avengers film, with Carol and T'Challa as the headliners, and Adam in a prominent supporting role. Maybe throw in Rhodey as a military liason, and have Monica be a member of the team too. Hell, maybe have it be America Chavez's debut.

Oh God! Natural light!
nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#62434: Sep 19th 2016 at 12:43:23 PM

[up]I wouldn't mind seeing MCU exploring the consequences, both positive and negative, of multiple superhero teams - each with their own philosophy about making the world better - existing relatively close to one another. The Ultimates would be a good place to start, especially if Fox isn't letting go of the FF rights anytime soon.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#62435: Sep 19th 2016 at 1:26:50 PM

Yeah, that would be neat.

As has previously been discussed, we are fast approaching the "Ten years" estimate that Stark gave for the rest of the world catching up to his early Iron Man designs. It'll officially be ten years since that proclamation in 2020.

Former Stark employee or not, having the Tinkerer's designs by vaguely reminiscent of some kind of proto-Iron Man tech would be a cool visual method of showing how, bit by bit, the rest of the world is getting there. Maybe even have Shocker and/or the Vulture's suits powered by a rudimentary arc reactor?

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#62436: Sep 19th 2016 at 1:29:34 PM

I'd really think an Iron Man: Armor Wars movie could work now, especially if they brought in Ezekial Stane as the bad guy. They could even add in Riri Williams in case Downey doesn't want to put on the suit again.

Another brilliant idea I have: Michelle Yeoh as the Mandarin.

edited 19th Sep '16 1:29:59 PM by alliterator

nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#62437: Sep 19th 2016 at 1:49:32 PM

[up]As much as I'd love to see the Mandarin done properly, I'm not getting my hopes up. Marvel Studios wants to stay in China's good graces after all.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#62438: Sep 19th 2016 at 2:02:00 PM

Get rid of the Mandarin name and/or make his backstory of him as a Mongolian guy who calls himself Temujin out of grandeur. Dunno how Chinese nationals feel like Central Asians and Mongolians but they're probably more Acceptable Targets to them, plus they're severely underrepresented in the media anyway. Or stick him in Iron Fist. I'm still pretty enamored with Known Unknown's (I think that's whose it was) idea to replace Fu Manchu since Marvel doesn't have access to the latter, and the Mandarin has been established as a character who exists within the MCU.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#62439: Sep 19th 2016 at 2:03:13 PM

Well, you could also go the route of not making the Mandarin an out-and-out bad guy. Just make them morally ambiguous.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#62440: Sep 19th 2016 at 2:11:35 PM

Look, the Mandarin was picked to tell a politically relevant story picking that idea and character apart. Changing him into an actual character that resembles the comic version would require altering the purpose of Iron Man 3's plot.

edited 19th Sep '16 2:36:33 PM by VeryMelon

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#62441: Sep 19th 2016 at 2:14:48 PM

[up] Um, they already revealed that there was a real Mandarin. In the one-shot "All Hail the King."

jakobitis Doctor of Doctorates from Somewhere, somewhen Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Doctor of Doctorates
#62442: Sep 19th 2016 at 2:22:03 PM

[up][up][up] If he's some sort of grey area morally ambiguous character that would make him about as much the 'real' Mandarin as Trevor was. He's a bad guy and has been for a very long time (in universe.) The most sympathetic portrayal he could get would be a well-intentioned extremist and even that would be pushing it. Part of the big deal about the Asian market would be having a Asian character who is pretty much irredeemably and unrepentantly bad and that would not go down well.

"These 'no-nonsense' solutions of yours just don't hold water in a complex world of jet-powered apes and time travel."
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#62443: Sep 19th 2016 at 2:27:22 PM

Um, they already revealed that there was a real Mandarin. In the one-shot "All Hail the King."

They do a lot of things in DVD extras. Remember that time Agent Carter had a DVD extra one-shot that wound up winning her a TV series? One in which the one-shot basically never happened, exiling it from canon in its own f*cking follow-up?

They threw belligerent fans who were upset about the Mandarin twist a bone in a DVD extra. There was never a plan to do anything with it. That was intended to be Iron Man's final solo movie and, so far, there has been no indication that plans have changed in that regard.

And that's for the best, because the Mandarin they've been setting up since IM1 is arguably just as shitty as the original racist caricature would have been. Some tinpot warlord who wants to rule the Middle East with black market American weapons is quite possibly the most uninspired version of the character ever conceived.

It was a sly reference in IM1, but it made the character unfilmable by association. The only way to salvage him would be to throw out the Ten Rings terrorist cell and do something completely different with it. Which is more or less exactly what IM3 wound up doing.

edited 19th Sep '16 2:32:21 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#62444: Sep 19th 2016 at 2:42:07 PM

Wait do people think we're still ever gonna get the real Mandarin?

nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#62446: Sep 19th 2016 at 2:57:12 PM

It seemed like a Once an Episode thing for a while where every new MCU film would have someone put some variation of "The real Mandarin will appear" in its WMG page. I'm not sure if it was people being smartasses or someone actually deluding themselves into thinking anyone at Marvel has any interest in doing that.

edited 19th Sep '16 2:57:46 PM by comicwriter

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#62447: Sep 19th 2016 at 3:10:57 PM

Remember that time Agent Carter had a DVD extra one-shot that wound up winning her a TV series? One in which the one-shot basically never happened, exiling it from canon in its own f*cking follow-up?
I mean, I think they said that all the One-Shots were still canon except for Agent Carter and that's only because there was a TV show that contradicted it. None of the other One-Shots have been contradicted.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#62448: Sep 19th 2016 at 3:20:18 PM

That's because nothing happening in the one-shots is important enough to be contradicted.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#62449: Sep 19th 2016 at 3:25:54 PM

I still think our best bet for an actual Mandarin would be not in an Iron Man movie, but in a Shang Chi plot - be it a movie or a tv show. Replacing Shang Chi's public domain but still far more problematic Archnemesis Dad with the Mandarin makes a lot of sense, if nothing else but if gives us a Chinese hero to balance the Chinese villain.

edited 19th Sep '16 3:29:26 PM by KnownUnknown

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#62450: Sep 19th 2016 at 3:30:27 PM

@Tobias and Very Melon- That's my opinion too on the Mandarin. What was implied of him in Iron Man I and the kind of character Trevor pretended to be in Iron Man III is not really something I'm interested in seeing. At best, you're talking about basically Osama bin Laden on steroids (or I guess basically Abu Nazir from Homeland), but at worst, the character (i.e. Trevor's fake persona) is this evil non-white guy who is motivated by a hatred of goodness and freedom and is responsible for all ills. The MCU has used the "hatred of freedom" idea fairly straight (Avengers!Loki, Ronan, HYDRA) as well as the "responsible for ills" (HYDRA again), both with more nuance and less Unfortunate Implications than what a straight version of the Mandarin would imply.

Now I have expressed interest in seeing Kang appear and a lot of the aspects people like about the Mandarin (non-white; cunning; use of magitek) fit him.


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