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Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
Yeah. While I'll defend to the death that Killian was a great Mandarin, Maya could have been an even better one.
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.In the Extremis arc that the movie is loosely based on, Maya Hansen is practically the co-lead alongside Tony. And then she's later on revealed to be the true mastermind behind everything. I would be at all surprised if Black intended to go more in that directions (and perhaps Ellen Brandt was meant to fill the role that Mallen had in the comic as well).
Heck they even set up a fairly decent motivation for Maya early on (wanting to use Extremis to cure diseases, heal injuries, etc) that could have led to a "good intentions send her down a dark math" type of arc for her. But then they drop that in favor of "he slept with me and didn't call me back, so I'm still angry about that over a decade later, so lets help a terrorist." Ugh, such a waste of potential.
Also did they even release any Killain toys, because I cannot recall ever seeing any? And it's not like he was all that visually interesting or distinctive either.
edited 14th Sep '16 2:21:52 PM by Punisher286
Woman Scorned elements aside, I thought Hansen would've had a better reason for being against Tony as an established peer genius. They could've basically taken the original comic motive as a false-flag Well-Intentioned Extremist for her motivation.
Given how she was talking in that opening scene, and Rebecca Hall's comments, I kind of think that the original idea for her character was that she was a well-intentioned extremist. Like it would have turned out that she was so sure that Extremis could work, and that it could help so many people, that sacrificing a few dozen or hundred people in the process was worth it, a necessary loss if you will.
Which of course contrasts nicely with Tony and his arc, which is kind of the opposite.
edited 14th Sep '16 2:38:14 PM by Punisher286
Whether the villain is Killian or Maya, cutting that opening scene would have done the film a world of good. It creates a false impression of the villain's motives.
For Killian, it left some people coming away thinking this was all about revenge for that time Tony stood him up. For Maya, it would have created the impression that this was all about bitterness for being a one-night stand. It's pointless and misleading no matter which way you slice it, and the movie is better off without trying to ham-fistedly shoehorn a message about "creating your own monster".
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.The motives are relatively clear if you're paying attention to what Killian says, but it still gives off a bad first impression and negatively colors people's perception of Killian regardless. He comes off as a completely two-dimensional caricature of a stereotypical nerd, and only makes him worse as a villain for it.
edited 14th Sep '16 2:48:42 PM by Draghinazzo
I think Tony did create him, but despite being snubbed like he was, he didn't let his motivations revolve around Tony.
He's actually one of the few enemies of Stark who didn't actually care about kicking Tony's ass, and only came after him to maintain his rep.
Consider how so many others wanted to destroy Tony, make him look bad, or strike at his personal issues with his parents.
Killian just sent Army helicopters to his house and blew it the fuck up. Tony made the challenge, and he tried to end it as soon as possible so he could get back to his real shit (and get a powerful enemy out of the way since the dude did help stop an alien invasion).
Killian isn't stuck on revenge. I do agree Maya would have been better though.
One Strip! One Strip!The line about creating demons still works because Killian says it was Tony who gave him the idea to remain anonymous and rule from the shadows. The problem was a huge number of people misinterpreted it as meaning a grown man is whining about how Tony was mean to him once 13 years ago.
Hence all the people who jokingly assert the movie ripped off the plot of The Incredibles.
If you misinterpreted that opening scene that way, it's your own fault, not the movie's.
I agree, but a lot of people seem to have misinterpreted it that way, given how often "The entire thing was just a convoluted scheme to stick it to Tony!" gets brought up in "Was Killian a shitty villain, Y/N?" discussions.
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.If that many people got that impression (I think I did to, actually), then the movie's probably at least partly to be blame.
Oh God! Natural light!Honestly the movie doesn't make clear at all that Killian isn't rooted on that night Tony stood him up. On the contrary, the movie directly supports that concept when Killian thanks Tony for standing him up and says doing that allowed him to rework his motivations and decide to go in world domination. His goal isn't "getting revenge on Tony" but the character makes evident that his motivation is strongly rooted in that moment. It's just that he used that hatred as a way to do the most boring movie scheme ever rather than revenge.
He isn't above being a petty vengeful dick either, he keeps Tony alive mostly to taunt him, and captures Pepper primarily to spit in Tony's metaphorical graves. The thing is Killian keeps coming up with bullshit rationalizations for his actions, but his actual goals are clear behind the lies.
"All you Fascists bound to lose."The one thing I liked about the opening was the pretty sneaky Chekhov's Gun of the exploding plant. The rest I agree was more trouble than it was worth.
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Yeah, I think that it is part of the problem...Killian keeps rationalizing what he does to Pepper, too, but it is pretty clear that he just wants to possess and control her. So it actually doesn't matter that Killian says that he learned the "worth of invisibility" from being stood up, it comes off as yet another excuse for him finally having a reason to pull Tony into his whole scheme.
Also, I always felt that the "I created Monster" lines is idiotic because Tony actually did nothing wrong. Yeah, he slept with Maya and then vanished, but let's be honest here, Tony has a reputation, Maya knows of said reputation and he never made her any promises, he was very open about only wanting to have some fun. There is nothing wrong with that if both participants are on the same page and know what they can expect of the other. And yes, he send Killian to the roof, but only after Killian kept pestering him, and that not just at the party, he followed him into what counts as his (or Maya's) private sphere. Just because Tony is famous, it doesn't mean that Killian had any right to do that.
In the end it boils down to "Tony was once slightly dickish while being drunk on a party, so all this is his responsibility". I mean, if there is a Superhero which can use the concept of accountability, it is Tony, but this is ridiculous. This really wasn't his fault. And I actually think that the movie would have been stronger if he had dealt with a villain who doesn't have a personal connection to him for a change.
edited 14th Sep '16 10:19:58 PM by Swanpride
What with Hulk being in Thor, do you guys think Marvel should do more crossover movies? That is, ones that aren't huge ones with everybody like Civil War, but a plot with a couple different series coming together for a single story.
I mean, they should probably use it sparingly rather than gimmicking it out and doing it all the time, but it would be a cool thing to do once (or twice, depending on the number of films around it) a Phase.
I really, really want them to do it with Spider-Man. I want a Spider-Man / Dr. Strange movie so bad it hurts. Spider-Man / Ant-Man is also an idea that makes an odd amount of sense, especially if Spidey starts he movie as an Inspector Javert. On the tv side, sticking him in a Spider-Man movie would be a perfect way to give Daredevil movie appearances.
edited 15th Sep '16 7:26:05 PM by KnownUnknown
I'd like a crossover film that's kind of a Sherlock Holmes type mystery. Like, say Peter gets framed for something and he has to clear his name, but it's not a political thriller like Winter Soldier. Make it a mystery where Spidey is framed for killing a guy and he goes on the run to clear his name. Along the way he rounds up some of his pals to assist in figuring out the true culprit in this caper and they bring them in whilst clearing Spidey of all charges.
Make it a Sherlock Holmes homage and have Downey and Cumberbatch cameo for a Sherlock Holmes joke, why not.
Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
