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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#62276: Sep 12th 2016 at 12:59:08 PM

It is really fascinating how movie writers sometimes can't seem able to see comic past their first ten issues or so.

Wong, like the Mandarin before him, has evolved into his own fleshed out and complex character with a rock-solid friendship with Doctor Strange rather than "an Asian manservent" in the meantime between his conception and today. The story they seem to be most strongly following, The Oath, demonstrates that.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#62277: Sep 12th 2016 at 1:05:24 PM

[up][up] It's largely repetition. I am not a Star Wars fan, and I have always trouble not to confuse the Star Wars theme with the Superman theme and the Indiana Jones theme (in fact, whenever I try to hum Indiana Jones, I end up with the Superman theme for some reason).

There are a lot of good points in the video, though I do disagree with the premise that only a soundtrack with a theme people can remember is a good one. There are a lot of soundtracks which stuck with me, but which I can't hum if my live depended on it. Ghost in the Shell is one of them, and the Winter Soldier is another. The staccato used in the movie is really distinctive, but not exactly something you can sing a text on.

And, btw, I can hum the Avengers theme. And sing The Star Spangled Man. With a plan.

Which brings me to another point: It is not surprising that people remember the Spider-man theme since it is technically a song AND was played in front of the TV show. I know way more TV show themes than movie themes (again, repetition).

edited 12th Sep '16 1:06:32 PM by Swanpride

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#62278: Sep 12th 2016 at 1:18:12 PM

I keep mixing up the Avengers theme with the 20th Century Fox fanfare.

Also, didn't John Williams compose both the Superman and Indiana Jones themes? That might explain the similarity.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#62279: Sep 12th 2016 at 2:12:57 PM

[up]Yep.

Wong, like the Mandarin before him, has evolved into his own fleshed out and complex character with a rock-solid friendship with Doctor Strange rather than "an Asian manservent" in the meantime between his conception and today. The story they seem to be most strongly following, The Oath, demonstrates that.

That could work. It doesn't necessarily alter the instant public perception of Unfortunate Implications, however. Sometimes that kind of thing is Fair for Its Day, but I can see how they'd want to just sidestep it entirely. Really, almost any casting decision in this movie was going to be difficult— any villainous Asian character is going to get called out on Yellow Peril associations, the Ancient One is the usual sagacious mentor we've seen a thousand times, Wong runs the risk of looking like Kato (or Cato). I suspect the movie doesn't want to try and address those issues *or* ignore them entirely— it wants to let them be what they are— but they were in a tough spot.

Frankly, any Oriental exoticism-tinted origin story suffers the same pitfalls. Iron Fist is probably going to go through the same thing. The best thing to do might actually be the Kill Bill approach, to just power through it as unironically as possible, with as much self-awareness as you can justify.

edited 12th Sep '16 2:24:16 PM by Unsung

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#62280: Sep 12th 2016 at 2:20:59 PM

The only MCU movie that had a really distinctive score was the first Iron Man. It's a shame the sequels went a more standard route.

edited 12th Sep '16 2:21:12 PM by comicwriter

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#62281: Sep 12th 2016 at 2:23:16 PM

I don't usually pay much attention to music. I mean, I like it when it's happening, but it's rare for me to actually remember what the music was like afterwards unless I rewatch the thing a bunch of times.

That said, Iron Man's theme punctuated by Tony's hammer strikes on the Mark I helmet is one of the ones that stuck with me.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#62282: Sep 12th 2016 at 2:30:49 PM

I'd say the main problem with the MCU is actually pretty simple, and one common to most Hollywood movies:

Mainly that most of the music is meant to be "atmospheric" and lack a strong and memorable melody line for the most part. Of course, there's absolutely no problem with using music that way, really, but it gets very stale when most movies are like that. Even having one strong piece of music like the Indiana Jones and Star Wars movies have is better than nothing.

There are of course some exceptions (as much as people complain about Hans Zimmer I at least remember a lot of the music from the Nolan Batman films), but that's generally how it goes.

Contrast that, with say, some japanese movies I've seen recently, like the last Rurouni Kenshin movie:

Pretty fucking hype right?

DeathsApprentice The Ultimate Lifeform from The Ark Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
The Ultimate Lifeform
#62283: Sep 12th 2016 at 2:31:26 PM

I really like the Captain America: The First Avenger soundtrack, especially the credits music. All the other soundtracks are just kind of meh to me. :/ (Though I do like "Taking a Stand" from The Winter Soldier. All the other tracks from that movie are kinda forgettable to me.)

When we're done, there won't be anything left.
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#62284: Sep 12th 2016 at 2:53:55 PM

I actually wonder if the fact that opening title sequences for superhero movies have fallen by the wayside is another contributing factor. Obviously the title wasn't the only place the Superman theme was played, but maybe there's less of an impetus to do a really memorable theme song now when there isn't an opening sequence to really showcase it.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#62285: Sep 12th 2016 at 3:11:50 PM

Of the MCU, the only films with a memorable soundtrack to me are Iron Man 1 (the one I wish became Tony's leitmotif instead of IM 3's), the Silvestri ones, and the Jackman ones, and IMO of those five I only consider IM 1, CA 1, and CA 2 to be good. Also, in The Avengers and TWS's cases part of the reason they stand out are because they're built around one or two memorable leitmotifs that make their way into most of the songs on the track.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#62286: Sep 12th 2016 at 4:26:28 PM

Soundtracks aren't something I pay attention too in my films.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#62287: Sep 12th 2016 at 7:44:31 PM

I like most of the music.

Iron Man 3's theme gets stuck in my head a lot, and I'm fond of both versions of the Avengers theme. I like how the AOU version is... bouncier? Is that the best way to describe it?

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#62288: Sep 12th 2016 at 10:24:17 PM

Interestingly a lot of people commented on the vid that the Captain America Soundtracks, especially the one of The Winter Soldier is really good. I tend to agree. Though what the MCU likes to do is to use pre-existing music in their movies. Partly as a nod, with the Ironman theme and the lonely man theme, but also for characterisation purposes, and not just in Got G. Tony has his Heavy Metal (the Ironman song is certainly what I remember the best from the first movie), Steve his Jazz and settle military themes in the score, Sam his Soul....

edited 12th Sep '16 10:27:33 PM by Swanpride

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#62290: Sep 13th 2016 at 12:09:00 PM

I would say that TFA has the best music overall mostly because of Star-Spangled Man, which is amazing.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#62291: Sep 13th 2016 at 12:46:36 PM

[up] That one is on Menken, though, not Silvestri...I love the piece when he comes back to the camp with the rescued soldiers.

Punisher286 Since: Jan, 2016
#62293: Sep 13th 2016 at 1:26:33 PM

I mentioned on the DC thread that they'd also make fun of Zemo's plan when they got to CW, and I was right.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#62295: Sep 13th 2016 at 1:29:16 PM

[up][up]Yeah it's similarly hard to believe. Zemo probably doesn't get as much shit because he was a far less annoying character than Lex Jr.

I broke down laughing at "Hawkeye, who's great in small doses."

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#62296: Sep 13th 2016 at 1:29:51 PM

Oh man that Ghost Rider skull looks really goofy now. Like a Halloween prop. I get a more realistically sized skull would be impossible to wear as a mask or need tons of CG, but it reminds me of a Halloween prop.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#62297: Sep 13th 2016 at 1:42:27 PM

[up][up] He doesn't get as much sh... because it is established in the very first scene with him that Zemo adjusts his plan as he goes. He didn't predict anything happening, he just rolled with what was happening while doing whatever necessary to get his hand on proof of Bucky's action. The whole bombing is not, like the clip claimed, about making the Avengers fight each other (that is just a bonus), it is about flushing out the Winter Soldier to get information from him.

It also helps that Zemo has a clear, understandable motivation.

edited 13th Sep '16 1:42:57 PM by Swanpride

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#62298: Sep 13th 2016 at 1:50:02 PM

That and Zemo's plan doesn't hinge on as much bullshit as Luthor's.

But yeah, great video.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#62299: Sep 13th 2016 at 1:50:03 PM

He has a clear motivation. I dunno how understandable it is, though.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#62300: Sep 13th 2016 at 1:51:28 PM

It helps that we've had enough movies with Cap and Iron Man over the years that we can believe they took the actions they did of their own will. We know Tony has parental issues, and Steve has difficulty letting go of the past and Bucky. Whereas Superman has been around for one film (that people already think got him severely wrong) and BvS is the first time we've seen Batman. So it comes off as more of a Idiot Plot.


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