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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#61751: Aug 23rd 2016 at 8:49:16 AM

If there's one thing Loki wasn't doing in The Avengers, it was thinking clearly. So I don't think the "secretly genius plan" theory works. Besides which, even at the best of times, Loki isn't the greatest planner. He's really good at manipulating people and using trickery to win in situations where he'd lose if just brute force were involved. However, his plans tend to have issues because of his conflicting desires/poor self-analysis.

With the mind control theory, it's more Wanda and Pietro I question than the HYDRA people. Like her comics counterpart, Wanda is a .... controversial character who makes some... controversial choices, but there's never been an indication that this is because of the fact that the got her powers from the scepter.

edited 23rd Aug '16 8:51:52 AM by Hodor2

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#61752: Aug 23rd 2016 at 8:50:10 AM

Her plan to let Stark destroy himself did end up creating a vessel for the Mind Stone to work through.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#61753: Aug 23rd 2016 at 9:01:46 AM

That is actually a good point...if the sceptre could encourage The Avengers to get on each others throats in The Avengers just by being in the same room with them, what else could it do?

shatterstar Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I wanna know about these strangers like me
#61754: Aug 23rd 2016 at 9:15:33 AM

[up] The true answer is whatever convenient to the plot of the current movie. cool

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#61755: Aug 23rd 2016 at 9:39:18 AM

It would make sense for them to kinda shift Loki towards a more protagonist position. Loki's an awkward case where he was the villain for his first two films because he's one of Thor's most iconic archnemeses and the villain responsible for the Avengers forming in the first damned place, but in the comics, he's been a superhero for a long time and that doesn't look like it's going to change any time soon.

Marvel loves teasing, "This is the arc where Loki GOES BACK TO BAD!" but it's always a fakeout for Loki to pull off some super-brilliant scheme that brings down the villain and/or helps Thor. And now we're seeing that in the movies too, with Loki's "betrayal" when he stabbed Thor in the back in The Dark World. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if we find out that Loki's ruling Asgard right now as some convoluted secret plan that he and Odin concocted rather than nefarious machinations.

I would not be surprised if Loki is 100% protagonist when Infinity War rolls around and he makes some kind of Heroic Sacrifice in the battle, setting up his reincarnation in Phase IV for a Journey Into Mystery or Loki: Agent of Asgard movie.

edited 23rd Aug '16 9:41:48 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#61756: Aug 23rd 2016 at 9:41:07 AM

[up]Now that sounds like an interesting plot device. Then again, Loki is still considered as a trickster so that is still left on the air to be thought of.

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#61757: Aug 23rd 2016 at 10:11:35 AM

I'd rather not have Loki be a straight up hero. I found it annoying enough that they glossed over the people who were likely killed when Wanda used her powers on the Hulk. I do not want the guy who ravaged New York to be on good terms with the Avengers.

Enemy Mine? Sure. Go for it. I always find that set up interesting.

MousaThe14 Writer, Artist, Ignored from Northern Virginia Since: Jan, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Writer, Artist, Ignored
#61758: Aug 23rd 2016 at 10:29:34 AM

@Swan, I mean that plan is shockingly straightforward, a definite recurring plot in a lots of stories where people get tricked by the villain: Stage tragedy, swoop in and stop it, look like a hero. It's pretty basic actually. Heck, It was Syndrome's final grand plan.

@Tobias, Orrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr He gets Ragnarok'd or however revival works, and in Stage 4 we introduce Ms. Marvel, Riri Williams, Kate Bishop, Patriot, and Kid Loki and begin the next generation and call it Young Avengers.

edited 23rd Aug '16 10:31:25 AM by MousaThe14

The Blog The Art
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#61759: Aug 23rd 2016 at 10:55:31 AM

I'm going to assume that Ragnarok will probably not wipe out all the Asgardians, if only because it seems unlikely that either Thor or Loki would be absent for Infinity War.

I expect that Ragnarok will actually feature Ragnarok only in about the same amount as Age of Ultron can reasonably be called an Age. Cool name first, accurate description of the contents second.

edited 23rd Aug '16 10:57:30 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#61760: Aug 23rd 2016 at 10:58:27 AM

I suspect some tertiary characters will die. I could see them killing Odin and maybe the Warrior's 3 and Sif or Heimdall.

edited 23rd Aug '16 10:58:45 AM by comicwriter

MousaThe14 Writer, Artist, Ignored from Northern Virginia Since: Jan, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Writer, Artist, Ignored
#61761: Aug 23rd 2016 at 11:04:09 AM

No, not them, I'm still holding out for an epic fantasy "Thor, Lady Sif, and The Warriors Three" movie.

The Blog The Art
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#61762: Aug 23rd 2016 at 11:12:40 AM

Methinks that ship has sailed, alas.

MousaThe14 Writer, Artist, Ignored from Northern Virginia Since: Jan, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Writer, Artist, Ignored
#61763: Aug 23rd 2016 at 11:21:25 AM

After the first Thor movie that was all I ever wanted... But we got The Dark World instead... I feel like I'm being cheated out of interesting ideas becuase we had to put so much focus on the Earth cast.

Even though I did like the Earth cast.

The Blog The Art
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#61764: Aug 23rd 2016 at 11:22:57 AM

There was that rumor that Heimdall would die but come back as a badass revenant to help the cast defeat the villain. Maybe a few strings could be pulled at the end there?

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#61765: Aug 23rd 2016 at 12:23:21 PM

I just didn't get the need to tie Thor 2 back to earth at all..if there is any movie which could have gone crazy with locations, it is this one. Instead the only "off earth" locations we got were boring brown earth.

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#61766: Aug 23rd 2016 at 12:27:49 PM

I kind of liked that Earth looked like an episode of Fringe, but I would have loved some more dimension-hopping, planewalking, eye-popping otherworldly action myself.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#61767: Aug 23rd 2016 at 4:11:38 PM

[up][up] Because "sci-fi/fantasy warrior who protects Earth" is the premise of the series. Being all about universe-trotting to the myriad corners of the galaxy is more the Guardians' thing.

edited 23rd Aug '16 4:12:22 PM by KnownUnknown

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#61768: Aug 23rd 2016 at 4:20:26 PM

The Nine Realms of the Thor mythos are very different from the cosmic backwater of Guardians. I would like to have both the rollicking fantasy adventure *and* protector of Midgard both play their respective parts in the Thor movies.

MedusaStone Since: Jan, 2015
#61769: Aug 23rd 2016 at 4:22:40 PM

Speaking of Thor, I just thought of something: after everything that happened in Civil War, do you think Vision could still lift Mjolnir?

RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#61770: Aug 23rd 2016 at 4:29:37 PM

The answer to that would depend partly on which camp you're in: the "he can lift it because, as a newborn innocent being, he is worthy" camp, or the "he can lift it because he's an inorganic construct, and thereby subject to a loophole" camp.

If it's the former, I would be surprised if he could still wield Mjolnir. (Also, does being able to wield Mjolnir also make him capable of harnessing its lightning powers, or can he just hit stuff with it?)

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#61771: Aug 23rd 2016 at 4:37:37 PM

It seems more tied to intent, something more abstract. I seem to recall that the SHIELD excavation site that sprung up around it couldn't lift it either, and that was with construction equipment.

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#61772: Aug 23rd 2016 at 4:48:01 PM

My theory is that, in determining "worthiness", Mjolnir includes noble parentage in the equation. That's why Thor can lift it despite still having many character flaws: being of royal blood helps cancel those out. And Cap, despite all his virtue, couldn't quite lift it because he is still common born.

Vision, being synthetic, sidesteps the issue of parentage, so the hammer judges him purely on his merits.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#61773: Aug 23rd 2016 at 4:54:07 PM

That's why Thor can lift it despite still having many character flaws: being of royal blood helps cancel those out.
Remember: the spell that only the worthy could lift Mjolnir was only placed on the hammer during the beginning of Thor. Previous to that, Thor was able to lift it because anyone could lift it. After that, however, Thor couldn't lift it until he became worthy (by sacrificing himself).

MedusaStone Since: Jan, 2015
#61774: Aug 23rd 2016 at 10:41:10 PM

Yeah, I don't think it's a matter of bloodlines, but of character. That's why in Thor Loki couldn't lift it. If I recall, he was surprised by that, even thought he was present when Odin put that spell on the Hammer to begin with.

As for Vision, I believe that while his body is synthetic, he is a person, Just like I thought JARVIS was a person. As such, I don't think he'd be able to lift it anymore. I think he could in Ao U because he didn't have any life experience to be 'tainted', for lack of a better term. He does now, and since I saw someone in this very thread say something about Vision being subjected to Break the Haughty... I think he'd struggle like everyone else, if only because of his own sense of guilt ( for permanently injuring Rhodes, accident though it was)

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#61775: Aug 23rd 2016 at 10:49:12 PM

I'm not saying the hammer only cares about people's bloodlines, or even cares mainly about that. Just that, coming from a monarchistic society, that's likely to be a factor it uses in assessing whether someone's worthy. Loki is of royal blood, but couldn't lift the hammer because he's a really, really bad person. However, I do think that Thor being of royal blood is what gives him the extra edge needed to be deemed worthy of the hammer, while people just as heroic and virtuous as he is (if not moreso) can still be deemed unworthy.


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