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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#61501: Aug 13th 2016 at 10:41:35 AM

...huh. Bruce REALLY doesn't seem that old.

Punisher286 Since: Jan, 2016
#61502: Aug 13th 2016 at 10:42:38 AM

She doesn't say Red Room, she specifically says KGB. And the way that she talks about it, it didn't sound like "oh I was a young child at the time." It sounded like something that she'd been doing long-enough that it'd had time to wear on her.

"When I first joined SHIELD, I thought that I was going straight, but it turns out that I just traded in the KGB for HYDRA."

So unless SHIELD sent Hawkeye to kill a child, that doesn't sound like her saying "I was like seven or eight at the time."

thatindiantroper Since: Feb, 2015
#61503: Aug 13th 2016 at 10:43:53 AM

[up] Maybe SHIELD DID dend him to kill a child, not knowing that the deadly Black Widow was practically a toddler.

Punisher286 Since: Jan, 2016
#61504: Aug 13th 2016 at 10:44:36 AM

Except that we're never given any indication of that.

thatindiantroper Since: Feb, 2015
#61505: Aug 13th 2016 at 10:45:37 AM

[up] Yeah I know, I'm just having fun.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#61506: Aug 13th 2016 at 10:45:49 AM

Most likely, the KGB stuck around longer than 1991 as an underground organization instead of dissolving like in real life.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#61507: Aug 13th 2016 at 10:47:07 AM

Given the universe of mad espionage we're dealing with, it's possible KGB pulled a HYDRA (in fact I think they pulled a similar trick in the comics): As the Soviet Union was dissolved, some Renegade Splinter Faction became a "underground" KGB and continued their acts of sabotage, and that's where Widow came along.

[up][nja]

edited 13th Aug '16 10:47:19 AM by Gaon

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#61508: Aug 13th 2016 at 10:50:41 AM

Seriously, I thought Bruce was mid-thirties and Natasia is late-fourties, just based purely on character dynamics and respective experience levels!

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#61509: Aug 13th 2016 at 11:08:47 AM

Wouldn't Hawkeye have also been a child?

Does SHIELD employ Child Soldier??

My various fanfics.
RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#61510: Aug 13th 2016 at 11:34:31 AM

Nope, I am more bothered by the idea that Natasha really wants to enter a relationship with a guy who can't even have sex! So, they can't have a physical relationship, they can't really settle down together, and if Bruce looses control under the wrong circumstances, he might accidentally kill her. That is wrong on so many levels in itself. (The Romance is also written like it belongs into a genre show for Young adults).

This is your daily scheduled reminder that it is possible to have a romantic relationship without sex, and there is nothing wrong or inferior about that type of relationship. And that not being interested/capable of having sex is not a flaw.

Not defending the romance, it was amateur-hour dogshit that dragged down a perfectly good character. But I seriously resent the "can't have love without sex!" perception.

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#61511: Aug 13th 2016 at 12:16:47 PM

Wouldn't Hawkeye have also been a child? Does SHIELD employ Child Soldier??
Jeremy Renner was born in 1971, so he's 13 years older than Natasha. If they sent him after her in 1991 (the last year the real KGB existed), he would have been 20 years old.

I thought the romance was fine, although it could have used a little more build up. Instead, it was just "Okay, they like each other." instead of, you know, seeing them like each other. I chalk this up to Joss writing more for TV than movies and with TV, you can build up relationships better.

edited 13th Aug '16 12:18:31 PM by alliterator

MedusaStone Since: Jan, 2015
#61513: Aug 13th 2016 at 2:54:07 PM

I shall now once again show my oddball tastes by saying 1) I think Natasha's WS hair is awful; it look like bad CGI to me. And 2) the only Captain America uniform that I actually like is the Stealth suit in WS. And it does have red, it's just easy to miss because it's in a wide vertical stripe down each of his sides. And the color is muted.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#61514: Aug 13th 2016 at 3:09:24 PM

Yeah I agree that her TWS hair, while it was the most, I guess I would call it practicalminded and unsexuallized compared to her usual disheveled hairdos, looked really fake and more obvious that she was wearing a wig than usual. IMO her Civil War hair is my favorite, and Truer to the Text than her previous styles while also keeping a level of no-nonsense professionalism.

Regarding Black Widow's age there's this interview from the writers that suggests her birth year really is to be taken at face value, or that if there is some fudging it's still not as dramatic as it is in the comics.

According to Markus, that would be difficult to pull off in the MCU as it stands. "Natasha is 70 years old in the comics or something, so she had an affair with Bucky in 1960s," he says. "These things become very unwieldy when everybody has to be 100 years old in order to pull off their backstories."

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#61515: Aug 13th 2016 at 3:30:00 PM

Until there's something that comes along to contradict it, yeah, I'm just gonna assume Nat is roughly the same age as her actress. The problem with the Older Than She Looks backstory is that we're obviously not getting a Black Widow movie anytime soon (that ship looks to have sailed), and I'm not sure how it'd be relevant to any of the other productions like Infinity War.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#61516: Aug 13th 2016 at 3:34:36 PM

Didn't they give her birth year in Winter Soldier?

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#61517: Aug 13th 2016 at 3:40:42 PM

1984, the same as Scarlett Johannson's own birth year.

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#61518: Aug 13th 2016 at 3:49:06 PM

To be slightly political I guess, since the KGB transitioned into the FSB and there's a fair amount of carry over between the two, I don't think it would be that odd for an operative to call one of the other- or just use the term KGB since it might be better known to the audience.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#61519: Aug 13th 2016 at 4:35:01 PM

The only Captain America suit that I dislike, heck, that I outright hate, is the Stealth Suit from Winter Soldier. It just looks ugly and is completely unfitting for Captain America. It looks like what Steve's suit would be if it were designed by the current DC film division.

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#61520: Aug 13th 2016 at 4:45:03 PM

It's meant to evoke the coldness of the Realpolitik revisionist SHIELD which Hydra has created. Fittingly, it's discarded halfway through and the original WWII costume is reclaimed.

The dark Cap suit looks kind of cool, but I love that as a statement on the film's part.

edited 13th Aug '16 4:48:05 PM by Unsung

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#61521: Aug 13th 2016 at 4:46:42 PM

Yeah I like the stealth suit just fine. It is a stealth suit after all. It's not supposed to be flashy or flamboyant.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#61522: Aug 13th 2016 at 4:51:02 PM

It's also ripped almost one-for-one from the comics in which Steve Rogers was the head of SHIELD. It's extremely fitting given the circumstances.

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#61523: Aug 13th 2016 at 5:01:49 PM

[up]Yep. Heh.

@Hodor 2: I suppose that's fair. If the KGB did transition/survive in some capacity, then that might be a bit of snark on Nat's part. The KGB: the only Russian intelligence agency that counts.

edited 13th Aug '16 5:11:01 PM by Unsung

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#61524: Aug 13th 2016 at 5:06:10 PM

I just don't think Captain America is the kind of person who should ever be stealthy and sneaky.

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#61525: Aug 13th 2016 at 5:09:29 PM

The movie agrees with you. But then again, look at who he's up against.

edited 13th Aug '16 5:11:59 PM by Unsung


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