TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Marvel Cinematic Universe

Go To

Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

hollygoolightly Since: Apr, 2012 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#60851: Jul 25th 2016 at 4:24:22 PM

[up][up]I still think that's why they left him there in the first place. He is also someone who could show up without throwing off the balance by being too big as a character or having powers that are much stronger than everyone else's.

[up]It's the thought that counts?

Phi Sat, nobody knows for sure. Feige was evasive about it, Stan has said that it would seem the most logical place for him to show up next, but that he doesn't know (I also think that he wouldn't be allowed to say one way or the other).

edited 25th Jul '16 4:28:12 PM by hollygoolightly

PhiSat Planeswalker from Everywhere and Nowhere Since: Jan, 2011
Planeswalker
#60852: Jul 25th 2016 at 4:27:39 PM

[up][up]Well he's been confirmed for Infinity War, so in any case he's not going to be frozen long.

Oissu!
hollygoolightly Since: Apr, 2012 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#60853: Jul 25th 2016 at 4:30:21 PM

Honestly, I usually expect a character who gets frozen to be unfrozen at the nearest possibility for Emergency Reason Whatever.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#60854: Jul 25th 2016 at 4:33:07 PM

Was hoping Nyong'o would be Shuri but Nakia was my next choice after that. Very curious to see what they have in mind for her, considering the original comics version was a bit of an unfortunate Yandere Woman Scorned and I don't think audiences are as keen on that kind of character these days.Since the Dora Milaje have been aged up to be the same as T'Challa and Nyong'o was said to be a love interest, they might change her to be more of a Dating Catwoman figure.

hollygoolightly Since: Apr, 2012 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#60855: Jul 25th 2016 at 4:36:18 PM

In addition, they could give her a more personal connection to Killmonger than just random henchwoman. As long as it doesn't become a triangle.

PhiSat Planeswalker from Everywhere and Nowhere Since: Jan, 2011
Planeswalker
#60856: Jul 25th 2016 at 4:38:40 PM

[up][up][up]Exactly. And any emergency in Black Panther could likely justifiably take him out of the freeze, if the writers wanted to go that route.

Oissu!
Galadriel Since: Feb, 2015
#60857: Jul 25th 2016 at 4:41:35 PM

Expecting emotional depth and long-term consequences from a product based on superhero comics? What was I thinking? :D

PhiSat Planeswalker from Everywhere and Nowhere Since: Jan, 2011
Planeswalker
#60858: Jul 25th 2016 at 4:49:34 PM

We all know emotional moments come second to emergency situations where you need every man you can get, even one who has been brainwashed.

Oissu!
hollygoolightly Since: Apr, 2012 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#60859: Jul 25th 2016 at 4:53:28 PM

Besides, who could resist pitting a one-armed hero against a one-armed villain? Plus, it'll give Bucky a chance to earn that vibranium arm.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#60860: Jul 25th 2016 at 4:55:15 PM

At most, I want Bucky to cameo in his cryo pod. Do not care to see him active in the film.

PhiSat Planeswalker from Everywhere and Nowhere Since: Jan, 2011
DeathsApprentice The Ultimate Lifeform from The Ark Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
The Ultimate Lifeform
#60862: Jul 25th 2016 at 4:58:57 PM

I'd really rather not have Bucky show up in Black Panther. I don't really see the point of including him, and I'd rather he not take away screentime from T'Challa and the other characters that will be introduced in this movie.

When we're done, there won't be anything left.
hollygoolightly Since: Apr, 2012 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#60863: Jul 25th 2016 at 5:00:29 PM

[up]I think if he's there, they can just as well use him. I also doubt that it would be more than Falcon in Ant-Man, or Ant-Man in CACW.

But it's all speculation. He might not be in the movie at all.

edited 25th Jul '16 5:02:26 PM by hollygoolightly

Galadriel Since: Feb, 2015
#60864: Jul 25th 2016 at 5:02:54 PM

It just makes me wish Civil War had deeper and longer-lasting consequences, and I just thought of a way to do that.

In the final fight, have Tony succeed in killing Bucky. He's got enough firepower to make it plausible, and he would only need a couple seconds during which Cap was down to make the shot. Then Cap beats him and just barely manages to refrain from killing him. Cap goes to Wakanda with Black Panther (adding a scene where he and T'Challa discuss revenge and T'Challa talks him out of going after Tony in future) and then breaks his team out of prison. No apology letter. The Avengers are genuinely broken, and nothing short of the imminent destruction of the world (if that) is going to get them working together again.

Civil War was either my favourite or second-favourite Marvel movie as-is, but I think this would have given it a lot more punch, and a bigger impact on the story.

hollygoolightly Since: Apr, 2012 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#60865: Jul 25th 2016 at 5:07:51 PM

[up]But they obviously want to keep Bucky around, so there was no killing him. And the arc is about Steve saving him, and deciding for being Steve Rogers in favour of being Captain America, not about Steve avenging his fallen friend (we've been there in the first movie). It would also push Tony over a threshold they obviously didn't want to cross.

The film was meant to break the Avengers apart, so that they are in a bad place for Infinity Whatever These Movies Will Be Called, not to turn them into mortal enemies.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#60866: Jul 25th 2016 at 5:12:10 PM

I reflexively disagree with the notion that real consequences means killing people.

Comic events could learn a thing from me.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Galadriel Since: Feb, 2015
#60867: Jul 25th 2016 at 5:13:16 PM

I think the first point is a genuine weakness of superhero movies. No major character is in danger of being permanently killed off (unless their actor's contract runs out), because every character is money in the bank to Marvel. It means that no movie can do anything genuinely game-changing in the long term, and limits the dramatic power of the stories.

Real consequences doesn't always have to mean killing off characters, but the consequences of Civil War would be stronger if the divide between the heroes was deeper, instead of something that clearly won't last and is beginning to be resolved even at the end of the movie. Bucky's death would accomplish that, and would fit in well with the rest of the plot, and would have a major emotional impact on both Cap and Iron Man.

edited 25th Jul '16 5:17:24 PM by Galadriel

hollygoolightly Since: Apr, 2012 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#60868: Jul 25th 2016 at 5:18:15 PM

[up]But at the same time you can say that killing a character also diminishes the power of the stories you are able to tell. What's more interesting, Bucky who comes to terms with what he has done as the Winter Soldier and tries to atone for it, or Bucky getting killed for the second time so that Steve can angst around some more? Personally, I think it's the former.

As for emotional impact - I still think it's there. Team Cap are fugitives. Rhodey is unable to walk. Bucky is frozen. Natasha is on the run, and Sharon probably, too. Tony still hasn't dealt with his parental issues, and now it's even worse.

edited 25th Jul '16 5:21:26 PM by hollygoolightly

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#60869: Jul 25th 2016 at 5:19:34 PM

On the flip side, the major reason I felt there was never gonna be a death in Civil War was that once you have a character kill a fellow hero, there's really no coming back from that. I can't see a scenario where you can still follow Cap as a protagonist and support him when he kills another hero, or vice versa for Iron Man.

I also agree that Bucky's return would be better saved for Infinity War, especially if it's a Big Damn Heroes moment.

edited 25th Jul '16 5:20:58 PM by comicwriter

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#60870: Jul 25th 2016 at 5:20:33 PM

Still think that killing is the most boring of consequences. And killing Bucky at this point would be simply idiotic. I would feel so cheated if I never got to see him going back to "normal" and dealing with everything which happened to him. Killing him would feel like a cop-out, as if the writers would use the easy way to avoid dealing with the consequences of what they did to him.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#60871: Jul 25th 2016 at 5:21:44 PM

In most scenarios I wouldn't be against Bucky dying in Civil War, but marketing for films means it wasn't going to happen.

hollygoolightly Since: Apr, 2012 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#60872: Jul 25th 2016 at 5:24:52 PM

[up][up][up]I also believe that Tony would have deeply regretted it if he had succeeded in killing Bucky, since other than a momentary psychic break, there is no real excuse for it. The guy was unable to refuse the order to kill Tony's parents. Tony knows that, and I don't think he could be at peace with being a murderer.

edited 25th Jul '16 5:25:23 PM by hollygoolightly

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#60873: Jul 25th 2016 at 5:31:34 PM

There are more interesting things to do with Bucky than kill him, and having Tony be the one to do it would probably kill whatever respect audiences might have for him.

Not to mention, if you thought the Stucky shippers were mad with this version of events, hoo boy...

Oh God! Natural light!
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#60874: Jul 25th 2016 at 5:33:20 PM

Of all the characters which could have died in Civil War, Bucky is pretty much on the bottom of the list for being a good choice to do so.

Never mind that I would have hated any of the heroes deliberately killing another one.

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#60875: Jul 25th 2016 at 5:33:45 PM

Agree with Swanpride.

Tony killing Bucky at this point would have totally derailed both characters' arcs. I'm not saying it wouldn't have been interesting, but I think both characters are in a pretty interesting place already, so I don't think the trade is worth it. Civil War did what it set out to do— it believably broke up the team. It also did so without irrevocably tarnishing the good guy status of any participant, so props for outdoing the original comics in that regard.


Total posts: 186,763
Top