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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#60526: Jul 18th 2016 at 7:08:36 PM

Forced it in smooth

Like a greased pig down a slip n slide

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Ekuran Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
shatterstar Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I wanna know about these strangers like me
#60528: Jul 18th 2016 at 7:32:34 PM

[up][up] I feel like the show is better for it because otherwise the only major male presence would be Kilgrave.

edited 18th Jul '16 7:32:46 PM by shatterstar

RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#60529: Jul 18th 2016 at 8:43:09 PM

While I liked Luke's inclusion, I don't necessarily think the show needed a major male presence outside of Kilgrave (we don't need a token Good Man to show that men can be heroic - we have pretty much every other show for that). I do, however, think that the show benefited from having a major person of color protagonist (Malcolm wasn't quite prominent enough to qualify), if for no other reason than the way it strengthened Kilgrave's white male oppression allegory.

What the show really could've used is women of color as protagonists, especially given the themes presented in the narrative. Claire's late-season cameo doesn't really cut it. But that's a problem that applies to the entire Western media industry.

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#60530: Jul 18th 2016 at 8:47:49 PM

Luke was mostly there to reference his comicbook relationship with Jessica. Danny can't really do the same thing yet.

shatterstar Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I wanna know about these strangers like me
#60531: Jul 18th 2016 at 8:48:23 PM

[up][up] Ugh. All this talk about Claire keep reminding about how wasted she was in Daredevil and her screen time was unfairly shafted in favor of Karen, who I personally hate.

[down] The fact that Rosario Dawson has chemistry with everyone she shares two minutes of screen time with while Deborah Ann Woll really struggles to stay relatable doesn't help either.

edited 18th Jul '16 9:00:06 PM by shatterstar

RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#60532: Jul 18th 2016 at 8:54:47 PM

Yeah, I wasn't a fan of Karen (in Season One, at least - I've not gone anywhere need Season Two). I greatly preferred Claire as a character. Honestly, I wish she'd gotten much more screentime in both Daredevil and Jessica Jones.

Fingers crossed, hopefully she'll get a better role in Luke Cage when that comes out. Which I'm pretty excited for, by the way. That's definitely the next thing on my MCU radar.

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
Punisher286 Since: Jan, 2016
#60533: Jul 18th 2016 at 9:22:13 PM

I remember reading somewhere that Rosario was only available to be in a certain number of episodes in DD season 1. She was busy on another project and so her schedule openings were limited. But IDK how true that is so don't quote me on that.

But it would make her suddenly just kind of dropping out of the season make more sense though.

edited 18th Jul '16 9:23:18 PM by Punisher286

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#60534: Jul 18th 2016 at 9:26:20 PM

I think having Luke be in Jessica Jones was a good thing, solely because they already had trouble with not having quite enough story to fill out their 13 episode run. Take Luke's plotline out, and what are you gonna fill that time with?

edited 18th Jul '16 9:26:44 PM by RavenWilder

Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#60535: Jul 18th 2016 at 9:51:35 PM

Luke's involvement at least made sense, what with Jessica's growing feelings for him building up her guilt over killing his wife for Kilgrave.

That's more than can be said for, say, the twins, who were basically cartoon characters that existed solely to be used as plot devices.

edited 18th Jul '16 9:52:04 PM by Watchtower

Punisher286 Since: Jan, 2016
#60536: Jul 18th 2016 at 9:54:13 PM

As an Alias fan, Luke appearing on the show always made sense to me. I also wouldn't be surprised if she pops up in his show at some point, or is at least referenced.

RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#60537: Jul 18th 2016 at 9:55:22 PM

[up][up] Yeeeah, I wasn't fan of the twins. The show did occasionally take a moment to humanize them and show that they were actual people just as much as everyone else was. But there weren't enough of those moments, and they were frequently inconsistent - humanizing them one moment, cracking jokes at their expense the next. Jokes that felt fairly insensitive and actually mildly offensive to me after a while.

Luke's inclusion felt perfectly appropriate for me, both for the allusion to the relationship they have in the comics and the fact that he tied in well to Jessica's character arc - and had an arc of his own. The twins, I could have ultimately done without.

edited 18th Jul '16 9:55:41 PM by RBluefish

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
wehrmacht belongs to the hurricane from the garden of everything Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
belongs to the hurricane
#60538: Jul 18th 2016 at 9:59:39 PM

Wasn't a huge fan of the twins either. I don't think I can say I hate them or anything, but it's definitely true that they could have been much better.

Punisher286 Since: Jan, 2016
#60539: Jul 18th 2016 at 10:00:10 PM

Given how "hot and heavy" they were getting on the show, I wonder if we'll see a version of the "Jessica and Luke have a child" storyline from the comics at some point?

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#60540: Jul 18th 2016 at 10:27:38 PM

I wonder if Jessica still went to Midtown High School way back in the day in this continuity. Granted, she's a lot older than it's other famous student this time around.

[up] Characters in a series (hell, in a universe) like this having a kid and making it stick? Television (and movie, honeslty) status quo says "NEVER!" and drives away like a maniac in the opposite direction.

But then, Jessica Jones has so far been great with ignoring television conventions and going with what works for the characters.

[down] There'd be no way it should happen, since she graduated years ago while Peter is still attending.

edited 18th Jul '16 10:30:59 PM by KnownUnknown

RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#60541: Jul 18th 2016 at 10:29:43 PM

If so, they probably won't be able to do the crush thing in this incarnation. That would be, uh, just a little bit creepy.

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#60542: Jul 19th 2016 at 12:12:21 AM

I think it is much more likely that Jessica turns up in Luke Cage than Danny Rand.

While pregnancies in TV are rare, if there is a show which can pull it off it's those Netflix shows if for no other reason than that they have the benefit of the time-jump.

Punisher286 Since: Jan, 2016
#60543: Jul 19th 2016 at 1:11:59 AM

Also her show was about pretty frank depictions of sex/relationships (both good and toxic). So I could see them potentially exploring that idea in a future season.

And yeah, given that Peter Parker is like 15 years old in the MCU, I doubt that they touch on that at all.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#60544: Jul 19th 2016 at 6:56:57 AM

While I liked Luke's inclusion, I don't necessarily think the show needed a major male presence outside of Kilgrave (we don't need a token Good Man to show that men can be heroic - we have pretty much every other show for that).

Ehh, we might. Characters like Luke, Malcolm, and Detective Clemons may be the only reason we haven't seen belligerent retaliations like, "Jessica Jones asserts that ALL MEN ARE RAPISTS. Worst show ever! Burn it and send rape threats to the people who made it! #NotAllMen" as usually happens any time people attempt to discuss the issue of rape.

As it stands, the blowback seems comprised entirely of people futilely trying to claim that rape culture isn't a thing and wasn't a major theme of the series, and that feminists are reading too much into a straightforward superhero story.

edited 19th Jul '16 6:59:50 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
jakobitis Doctor of Doctorates from Somewhere, somewhen Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Doctor of Doctorates
#60545: Jul 19th 2016 at 8:54:51 AM

Luke was important to the exploration of rape if only to show that Jess (or any other rape victim) isn't instantly made into some broken blossom who cannot bear a man's touch after the act. Yes, she's been left pretty messed up in the head but she can still form relationships and enjoy sex, albeit some time after the event. And yes, they could have had A.N. Other character for the same purpose but if you have a canonical love interest (who just so happens to be getting his own show) then why not use him?

I can see Danny Rand making a few appearances in Luke's show for related reasons - Luke is involved in a black community and culture, but is also surrounded by crime and criminals - and sadly, there is a correlation there. Danny (if like his comic version) wants to try and help - but in his guise as rich, white industrialist can he truly understand how?

"These 'no-nonsense' solutions of yours just don't hold water in a complex world of jet-powered apes and time travel."
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#60546: Jul 19th 2016 at 9:23:36 AM

I think the other part was it was an attempt to put a human face on Jessica's crimes while she was under Kilgrave's control. They may have thought her killing some random, nameless woman wouldn't have as much impact or guilt as her realizing she killed her boyfriend's wife.

Punisher286 Since: Jan, 2016
#60547: Jul 19th 2016 at 10:42:47 AM

It also helps to demonstrate her self-destructive streak in a way beyond just "she drinks a lot and picks fights with people." She sympathizes with the guy, knows full-well who she killed, and she STILL starts sleeping with him while not telling him (despite it being shown repeatedly that she knows deep down that that's wrong). And she tentatively starts to maybe lay the groundwork towards telling him when she brinks up the topic of mind-control. But when Luke gives the answer that he does, she gets scared and doesn't tell him (whereas if she had, then maybe he wouldn't have been so angry with her later on).

And yeah, I did like that the show showed that rape/sexual assault victims don't always become paranoid of having sex ever again. They can still enjoy it. I know that she wasn't a rape victim, but Hellcat starting to date Nuke despite their, brutal, first meeting (after learning the context behind it) is another example of this.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#60549: Jul 19th 2016 at 12:07:38 PM

Sweet Christmas. That is one nice suit.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#60550: Jul 19th 2016 at 12:09:30 PM

O.O That is an amazing suit.

Idle thought: I don't want the MCU Spider-Man movies to do Venom. <.<;; I fear that if they do a Venom movie, it will encourage Marvel's writers to take the symbiote away from Flash Thompson and give it back to Eddie Brock so it can be a villain again. Agent Venom is one of the best things to come out of Marvel in recent history. Even the current Spaceknight series is surprisingly good, despite the kinda-stupid Klyntar plot point.

edited 19th Jul '16 12:10:53 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.

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