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Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
<.< I try to at least be funny when making controversial points. The goal is that even if you don't agree, you might still get a laugh out of it.
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.I also do.
It's funny and it makes you think, which is the best kind of humour.
One Strip! One Strip!To be fair, Owlsly's plan was not as solid as he thought since not only did Fisk just kill him anyway, but if not for Dare Devil getting there first, Fisk's men would have found and killed the dude he was hiding.
He seriously underestimated just how much Fisk loved Vanessa. Little Chinese Lady probably could have pulled that off, cause, as an unassuming Chinese Woman who is half the size of everyone else, she's clearly the most dangerous person there (and Nobu has is a bad ass ninja with crazy zombie powers who quite literally tore Matt into chunks), but Owlsly is just a normal dude....
I never saw that Career Suicide post. I should look it up.
It's from a couple years ago in the Dare Devil show's thread.
- Fisk: I killed Anatoly for no good reason.
- Nobu: The f*ck is wrong with you?!
- Owsley: Good job, you screwed up our relationship with the Russians.
- Fisk: Yeah, but then I bombed the Russians and had Vladimir killed, so we’re good.
- Nobu: I don’t think you understand this whole “Crime Empire” thing.
- Fisk: I’d like to see you do better.
- Nobu: Fine, I will. *dies*
- Fisk: Nobu’s dead now.
- Owsley: Oh good, with the Russians and the Japanese gone, we've lost any actual violent threat our organization could pose. We have been reduced to an old accountant, a mysterious Chinese drug manufacturer, and a fat man whose entire organization seems to consist of one charmingly entertaining fellow who is probably more enjoyable to listen to than the entire rest of us combined.
- Gao: I am beginning to have serious concerns with your ability to run this group. Remind me how you became the authority figure here?
- Fisk: Well, the thing about that is, oh look, the masked guy is attacking your operation.
- Gao: F*ck this, I’m out. Peace, bitches.
- Owsley: That was sudden. So. You and me.
- Fisk: Basic pattern recognition suggests I’m going to kill you for some reason.
- Owsley: I tried to poison you and your girlfriend to kill ONLY HER.
- Fisk: Good enough.
- Owsley: But wait! I have a plan in place that will take you down if you kill me. Like you said, pattern recognition, and this series is going to need some villains next season. I’m a pretty big shot in the comics too, so, y’know, I guess this is where we part ways and have an awesome gang war once the next season rolls around.
- Fisk: Nope, killing you now.
- Owsley: But I literally just explained to you five seconds ago how that’s career suicide.
- Fisk: CAREER SUICIDE IS MY MIDDLE NAME! *kills Owsley*
Wilson "Career Suicide" Fisk is exactly what I liked about him as a villain. He's trying so hard to be this detached criminal mastermind and present himself as such, but he can't because his uncontrollable temper and emotional weaknesses keep bubbling up to the surface and making him take rash and stupid decisions. To me, that's a lot more entertaining than a "perfect" villain with no character flaws other than being a villain, and makes their downfall more believable and interesting than just being overpowered by a stronger hero.
And he could get away with it for a while by just throwing money at problems, but then it catches up to him with things like Owlsley.
The real idiot in that confrontation was Owlsley himself; the whole reason he orchestrated that plan was because he felt Kingpin's emotions were causing him to make stupid decisions, and then he expects him to keep his emotions in check.
edited 16th Jul '16 10:15:47 AM by Anomalocaris20
You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Agreed. Mostly on the Owlsly thing.
Though, in his defense, I don't think he planned to be caught, and setting that up was a bit of last minute insurance to buy him time.
If he had the choice of being alone with Fisk after the latter found out about a very personal betrayal, or being miles away on Tahiti when it happened, he'd have been having that conversation with him while sipping Margaritas.
I get the feeling Prison and Hindsight will help Fisk temper his temper.
One Strip! One Strip!Consequentially, Fisk's self-destructive behavior contributes to the criticism that Dare Devil is a largely ineffectual protagonist. Season 2 doesn't help that either, as Matt spends the bulk of the season picking fights with characters like the Punisher and Stick over their willingness to kill his enemies to ultimately no avail, as the season's conflicts are all resolved by the killers.
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.![]()
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That I have to disagree with. I think the main villain, who gets the most screentime, should be a flawed and interesting character rather than a bland Magnificent Bastard who, again, can only be defeated by being physically overpowered. Let the secondary villains who only exist to provide a spectacular fight scene anyway be bland and generic, if any have to be, but don't let your main villain feel less like a character and more like a vague malevolent force.
That's part of why I found Nobu somewhat disappointing in season 2. He worked fine as a secondary antagonist in season 1 because he was out of focus, and the lack of information about him made things exciting and mysterious, but those very things that made him good in season 1 made him dull in season 2 where he's supposed to take center stage but is still just some vague agent of evil with no personal goals of his own.
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The thing about Fisk's self-destructive behavior, especially in the case of Detective Hoffman, is that it doesn't immediately lead to his downfall, it simply gives Daredevil a point of entry to be a hero in. Fisk's mad fumbling to find and kill Hoffman after accidentallying the Owl Man would have actually succeeded; his men had a gun pointed at Hoffman and everything. It's just that that same mad scrambling caught the attention of Daredevil (or more specifically, Matt, Foggy, and Karen), giving the hero a way to be effectual against the villain and exploit his mistake.
Kingpin didn't directly move his king into checkmate* , but he did move his pieces in a stupid way that let Daredevil catch his mistake and checkmate him. It's an important distinction, I feel, because it means that victory still hinges on the hero taking action rather than the villain suiciding on their own.
edited 16th Jul '16 10:35:38 AM by Anomalocaris20
You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!The thing is that we never see Kingpin to be an effective villain before he gets derailed by love. We see Wesley be a very effective one - honestly, I felt that he was more terrifying than the Kingpin himself. But, well, first season problems...in the second season, Kingpin is the schemer I wanted him to be.
Kingpin orchestrates the downfall of the Russians and Nobu in the first season. He's pretty sharp, but he relies a lot on Wesley, so when Wesley dies everything goes to Hell.
"All you Fascists bound to lose."Both the Russians and Nobu are threats to his authority (the Russians in particular seem always on the edge of jumping in his throat), eliminating them consolidates his powers as the sole ruler of the city's underworld, which makes his plans go smoother. Eliminating them is also part of his whole "clean the city" agenda (as illustrated by the justaposition of Fisk and Vanessa talking about making the city a better place with the Russians being blown up). Taking out mob bosses like Nobu and the Russians leads up to his endgame of making the city "a better place".
"All you Fascists bound to lose."That the Russians and Nobu were "threats to his control of the underworld" would be an easier pill to swallow if he ever did any ruling of the underworld. As it is, his entire branch of their combined organization seems to consist of himself and Wesley. Like Swanpride said, it's never actually clear what Fisk brings to the table.
edited 16th Jul '16 4:18:09 PM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.As a general rule of thumb, if you want your crime boss to remain somewhat sympathetic you don't show him being crime boss-y. If anyone here reads the Dresden Files you'll know who I'm thinking of.
And you should start like a Cinema Sins style blog or something, Tobias.
He has men. The climax of the season is him bringing a small army to fight in the city.
Fisk's purpose in the criminal council is basically connections. He has judges, cops, politicians, and the like in his pocket. He's the most "legitimate businessman" off them all. So he acts as The Fixer for the council.
"All you Fascists bound to lose."

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