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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#60351: Jul 12th 2016 at 8:13:38 AM

It wasn't Manhattan, it was Denver. That's how they introduced the second Spider-Woman.

Paradisesnake Since: Mar, 2012
#60352: Jul 12th 2016 at 8:36:40 AM

It wasn't Manhattan, it was Denver. That's how they introduced the second Spider-Woman.

Ok, thanks. I only remembered that they had some part of the real world, but not which one.

Anyway, to add on what I said previously, a big part of Secret Wars was the heroes not fighting the villains, but preparing to do so. During this downtime you could do all the standard character interaction stuff. Especially if they changed the patch of area coming from Denver for a part of New York, they could have a lot of the more minor characters in the story, which would give them more tools for character development.

You could also have some kind of subplot about the characters who were left to Earth, or maybe even about the civilians who were teleported into the Patchwork World, trying to figure the situation out and do their best to help the heroes.

Honestly, Secret Wars is one of those stories where there's not too much narrative material that's absolutely crucial for the story, so the creators would have a lot of freedom to work with the source material.

edited 12th Jul '16 8:43:30 AM by Paradisesnake

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#60353: Jul 12th 2016 at 8:58:11 AM

The issue is not character interaction. It's character motivation.

"Some asshole says we're supposed to fight" is a paper-thin justification for Let's You and Him Fight.

And that's before you get into how vague and unsatisfying a character the Beyonder is.

edited 12th Jul '16 8:59:19 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#60354: Jul 12th 2016 at 9:11:14 AM

[up] Plus, the real bad guy of the story should always be Doctor Doom. And right now the MCU can't use Doom.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#60355: Jul 12th 2016 at 10:24:17 AM

Was there a Secret Wars video game? Why not!

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#60356: Jul 12th 2016 at 10:40:13 AM

Marvel Contest of Champions was supposed to be a Secret Wars game originally.

edited 12th Jul '16 10:40:58 AM by comicwriter

Paradisesnake Since: Mar, 2012
#60357: Jul 12th 2016 at 11:11:24 AM

[up]x4 As I said, there's not much in Secret Wars that absolutely cannot be changed without losing something important. Obviously they're not going to just adapt Secret Wars to the big screen — they're going to adapt it to the MCU.

It's the same thing as what DC did with The Death of Superman and The Dark Knight Returns, and Marvel themselves with Civil War. They take an existing story and tweak it to fit the bigger Cinematic Universe narrative. If anything, Secret Wars should be easier to adapt since it's effectively a blank canvas, onto which you can throw just about anything.

edited 12th Jul '16 2:51:06 PM by Paradisesnake

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#60358: Jul 12th 2016 at 12:40:43 PM

The basic concept of Secret Wars - in "a lot of characters are abducted and forced to fight" - can certainly work, though it certainly would need to be adapted for the MCU, which means that it can't be just about "cool, a lot of heroes fight", but it needs some sort of emotional core in all this.

Anyway, I hope that Marvel gets the fantastic 4 rights back so that they can set up Galactus as an eventual big-bad, but I also would love to see the secret invasion storyline played out...with Captain America! Can you imagine seeing a movie with him and then it is suddenly revealed in the end-credits scene that he is a Skrull and in the next Avengers movie you see him in a Skrull prison, having to escape from there? (yeah, I know, they already did this in EMH, but I would love to see a version of it on the big screen, too).

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#60359: Jul 12th 2016 at 3:33:28 PM

In the Secret Invasion comic, a major point of hostility was the fact that the New Avengers just assumed out of hand, "If anyone's a Skrull, it's Iron Man. He's the OBVIOUS Skrull!"

With the Civil War division as it is now, the proposed "Captain America as Skrull Infiltrator" plotline could really run with that. Make a big fuss in Cap's team, "Tony Stark would NEVER sign the Accords. He would NEVER support making the Avengers into a U.N. peacekeeping organization. He HAS to be a Skrull," and then reveal at the end that no, the Skrull is Cap.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#60360: Jul 12th 2016 at 5:16:29 PM

I hope when Thor and Hulk visit Hel during Ragnarok, Hulk is mobbed by spirits of the damned bemoaning their sprained deltoids and gout.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#60361: Jul 12th 2016 at 7:20:28 PM

Spider-Man: The Animated Series did their version of Secret Wars with a severely reduced cast, so I don't see how the MCU couldn't do the same thing.

Spider Man The Animated Series both introduced a lot of characters and reused a few bit characters specifically for that arc, relying on the fact that they had several episodes to flesh each one out as they needed. A film can't do that.

The Marvel Cinematic Universe could have done the whole "bring back minor characters with deeper characterization" bit, except Phase 2 was the verse's weak link in terms of expanding the universe to have characters like that (note that, the tv shows aside, if you go by the movies the Avengers and friends are still the only significant superpowered people on Earth), and many of the characters they did introduce who could be interesting in the concept were killed off.

Secret War would still be interesting, but it would basically be a Guardians vs Avengers crossover at this point rather than a huge collection of characters from wide parts of the verse, unless the films actually started caring about tv.

edited 12th Jul '16 7:20:42 PM by KnownUnknown

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#60362: Jul 12th 2016 at 8:12:20 PM

It sounds like they're gonna be broaching some of the whole Lets You And Him fight ideas in Ragnarok anyway.

Paradisesnake Since: Mar, 2012
#60363: Jul 12th 2016 at 8:39:04 PM

[up][up] True, although the Avengers is now comprised of two groups, so a Secret Wars film would still be a great opportunity to give some of the less seen ones more screen time... not to mention the possibility of introducing completely new heroes, as you already pointed out the animated adaption having done.

Still, the real problem wouldn't be gathering enough heroes for the requirements of the movie — it would be the villains that would cause some problems.

edited 12th Jul '16 8:40:02 PM by Paradisesnake

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#60364: Jul 13th 2016 at 2:09:02 AM

When I said I wanted to see the Secret Invasion, I certainly didn't mean right now. It would cheapen Civil War if they explain it away with "it was the Skrulls"

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#60365: Jul 13th 2016 at 7:19:42 AM

Not necessarily. In the comic, a lot of people assumed it was going to be used to explain away Civil War, which heightened the tension. They used Tony's maligned status among fans for its Paranoia Fuel, with Anti-Regs raising the question, "What if Tony Stark is a Skrull and that's what Civil War was actually about? He was trying to cripple us so we wouldn't be able to defend the Earth when the Skrulls arrive!"

But a key point is that, ultimately, neither Stark nor Rogers were a Skrull during Civil War. There was a Skrull involved in that, but it was Hank Pym and his contribution was limited to creating the clone Thor. They used the possibility of cheapening Civil War's conflict to create tension without actually going through with it.

In the same vein, making Steve a Skrull doesn't have to cheapen Civil War, provided he wasn't a Skrull yet when Civil War happened. They could do the same thing the comic did and be like, "Yeah, there was a Skrull, but it was Ross. No, not the secretary of defense. Remember that guy who laughed about the lawyer? Yeah. He was a Skrull."

Minor support roles, not the prime movers.

EDIT: And, of course, with Secret Invasion would have to come the Super-Skrulls. Pick various minor characters throughout the MCU's history. They're Skrulls, and they're the reason the Skrulls have X. Like, maybe Savin was a Skrull and that's why the Skrulls have Extremis.

edited 13th Jul '16 7:24:07 AM by TobiasDrake

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dantecito Since: Dec, 2014
#60366: Jul 13th 2016 at 9:36:46 AM

I think the roles of characters in a secret war can be replaced:

  • Guardians of the Galaxy and Inhumans as X-men and Fantastic Four
  • Thanos as Galactus:
  • Loki as Dr Doom
  • Maximus as Magneto
  • Abomination as Absorbing Man
  • Villain of Spiderman as Doctor Octopus
  • Nebula as Enchantress

Or in should the series and the movie, eventually reach agreement

  • Lorelei as Enchantress

edited 13th Jul '16 9:37:16 AM by dantecito

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#60367: Jul 13th 2016 at 9:41:56 AM

Loki as Dr Doom

For the love of all that is sacred, no

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
dantecito Since: Dec, 2014
#60368: Jul 13th 2016 at 9:46:29 AM

[up]Then:

  • Red Skull as Dr Doom
  • Norman Osborn as Dr Doom
  • Zemo as Dr Doom

Choose your favorite.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#60369: Jul 13th 2016 at 9:52:48 AM

When replacing important characters and concepts, there comes a point at which so many important characters and concepts have to be replaced that it ceases to resemble the final product in any conceivable way.

Sure, we could make a movie about Loki, the Red Skull, and Zemo dog-piling on Thanos to try and steal infinite cosmic power from him while the heroes try and prevent anyone from obtaining that power, but would that really be Secret Wars? Because it kinda sounds like Infinity War to me.

edited 13th Jul '16 9:53:15 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Punisher286 Since: Jan, 2016
#60370: Jul 13th 2016 at 9:57:33 AM

Well it makes no sense whatsoever to use Zemo in that role (MCU Zemo anyway, comic book Zemo would fit that idea much better). His entire motivation and viewpoint contradicts this idea.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#60371: Jul 13th 2016 at 10:09:29 AM

I would prefer this as the conclusion of the MCU anyway...can you imagine, the MCU having one big hurrah, digging up heroes who might already been in retirement at this point?

thatindiantroper Since: Feb, 2015
#60372: Jul 13th 2016 at 10:27:05 AM

[up] That depends. In this hypothetical has Kevin Feige been arrested for cannibalism forcing Disney/Marvel to actually end the MCU ?

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#60374: Jul 13th 2016 at 9:59:01 PM

I'm still kind of weirded out that Civil War had two people with the last name of "Ross".

And as far as I know, they aren't related?

Oh God! Natural light!
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#60375: Jul 13th 2016 at 10:01:17 PM

[up]The movie have two James and I dont see anyone complain it about that.

Well, maybe Tobiasevil grin

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"

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