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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#60101: Jul 5th 2016 at 3:13:06 AM

I didn't. He was basically just The Dragon to The Dragon in Winter Soldier. Being promoted to Starter Villain seems about right.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#60102: Jul 5th 2016 at 6:48:28 AM

I don't mind either way. I mean, he was remarkable memorable as a character, which I mostly put down to the charisma of the actor, and I certainly wouldn't have minded to have him around as a first minor villain who becomes more and more dangerous with time, but on the other hand blowing him up was practically blowing up the notion that Steve would die in this movie in a certain way. It was practically the writers saying "don't expect us to go that route".

Thus said, Infinity wars might reshape the whole MCU. So who knows, they might actually find a way to bring him back down the line.

Spinosegnosaurus77 Ramen Fairy from Ontario, Canada Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: All I Want for Christmas is a Girlfriend
Ramen Fairy
#60103: Jul 5th 2016 at 7:06:07 AM

Garcelle Beauvais & Tiffany Espensen have joined the Spider-Man: Homecoming cast.

edited 5th Jul '16 7:06:27 AM by Spinosegnosaurus77

Peace is the only battle worth waging.
thatindiantroper Since: Feb, 2015
#60104: Jul 5th 2016 at 8:22:37 AM

[up] You know with all these casting announcements I can't imagine most of them have a big role.

Seems more like a marketing tactic, release the cast list piece meal to keep the buzz up.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#60106: Jul 5th 2016 at 9:53:42 AM

I'm sure people said the same thing about Coulson getting stabbed through the heart by Loki.

Yeah, and they were right. Coulson didn't survive that.

Gillo suggests that Crossbones may have survived because you didn't see a body, but was wearing a suicide vest that exploded. That doesn't really leave much of a body.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
thatindiantroper Since: Feb, 2015
#60107: Jul 5th 2016 at 9:57:38 AM

Logically there's no way but hey comic book bullshitonium can do anything.

PhiSat Planeswalker from Everywhere and Nowhere Since: Jan, 2011
Planeswalker
#60108: Jul 5th 2016 at 10:23:12 AM

There's already precedent in Daredevil and Agents of Shield for flat-out resurrection. Anyone the writers want back can come back now.

edited 5th Jul '16 10:23:19 AM by PhiSat

Oissu!
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#60109: Jul 5th 2016 at 10:25:42 AM

You say that like either show changed anything.

Neither The Hand nor the Kree corpse-serum are relevant to Crossbones's situation. One of those options doesn't even exist anymore. The only "precedent" they set is that a writer can, if he or she so decides, introduce a plot device for resurrecting the dead. Which has always been true and will always be true in fiction.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
ManOfSin Since: Mar, 2015
#60110: Jul 5th 2016 at 11:43:39 AM

Kinda of a random question: What was the reason for Marvel Studio to not have Hank and Janet as Avengers?

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#60111: Jul 5th 2016 at 11:45:37 AM

Edgar Wright was holding on to them so that he could make Ant-Man, which then fell apart eventually.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#60112: Jul 5th 2016 at 11:47:58 AM

I don't know if there's an official reason, but I think it has a lot to do with Hank being primarily known for building Ultron and beating up his wife. Because of this rep, there wasn't a desire to have Hank as one of the Avengers and instead, the decision was made to have Scott as Ant-Man and bring in Hank in a different role that didn't have those "hang-ups".

As for Janet, Hope is somewhat like Janet (particularly the hair) and the actual Janet may be introduced in the future as she has one of those ambiguous comic book deaths that 100% mean you are alive.

Edit- And with building Ultron specifically, I think there was an element of somewhat avoiding the Omnidisciplinary Scientist trope. Pym's specialty is the Pym Particle shrinking technology and to some extent robotics- but robotics with a focus on insect behavior. Tony Stark's specialty is robotics, with emphasis on artificial intelligence. So, it makes more sense to give the latter the role of building Ultron than the former.

Of course, there's kind of a problem with Tony being an expert on everything, but at least he's an expert in things related to his general wheelhouse. It doesn't make much sense outside of a comic that the "ant-guy" managed to build a sapient omnicidal killer robot.

edited 5th Jul '16 11:54:19 AM by Hodor2

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#60113: Jul 5th 2016 at 11:51:26 AM

[up][up] Wasn't he specifically holding onto Jan as being dead?

I remember hearing that Whedon wanted to put Wasp in the first Avengers movie but either couldn't or decided against it.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
ManOfSin Since: Mar, 2015
#60114: Jul 5th 2016 at 11:53:02 AM

[up][up][up]

That shouldn't have stop them for making the two Avengers later on down the line, instead of making them past their prime and unable to play a role on the team.

[up][up]

Spider-man also hit his wife.

edited 5th Jul '16 12:03:42 PM by ManOfSin

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#60115: Jul 5th 2016 at 11:57:19 AM

According to Joss Whedon it was Wright. He wanted to have Janet in the movie.

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#60116: Jul 5th 2016 at 11:59:04 AM

[up][up]True, but he's not primarily known for that, whereas Pym...

At the same time though, I think it is worth noting that Spider-Man's current "never live it down" involves selling his marriage to the Devil, which probably plays some role in the MCU Peter being in high school.

I don't disagree with the idea that maybe Jan and Hank could have been introduced with the current generation, but I think Tony kind of stole Hank's role on the team. And I think as with the Fantastic Four, there's something "retro" about Hank and Jan that make them work better as precursor characters.

edited 5th Jul '16 11:59:20 AM by Hodor2

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#60117: Jul 5th 2016 at 12:02:41 PM

The reason why Hank and Jan weren't in the Avengers is actually rather simple. They were still going with Edgar Wright's movie at the time (he'd been pitching it since the early 2000's), which like the finished product, had Hank Pym as a retired old man who used to be Ant-Man decades ago. Unless the finale verged wildly from the finished product, I'd imagine the point about Hank being too old to continue as Ant-Man in the present would've still been there.

Whedon had wanted to put Jan in the movie (presumably meaning she wouldn't be Hank's wife in this universe) but found out that there was already too much shit going on in this movie to introduce Jan and give her an origin story. You can see in the finished product that he was having trouble balancing screentime for the 6 Avengers he already had (Hawkeye says Hi!), so a 7th member probably would've been pushing things.

Spider-man also hit his wife.

So did Reed Richards. The difference is those are both way more popular characters than Hank Pym, so those incidents weren't the most notable things they ever did.

Heh.

edited 5th Jul '16 12:06:31 PM by comicwriter

ManOfSin Since: Mar, 2015
#60118: Jul 5th 2016 at 12:11:26 PM

[up]

Wasn't asking why they weren't in The Avengers movie, but why are they not going to be on the team ever.

edited 5th Jul '16 12:13:38 PM by ManOfSin

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#60119: Jul 5th 2016 at 12:13:36 PM

The same reasons still apply. Hank is a retired old geezer and Jan is lost in another dimension somewhere.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#60120: Jul 5th 2016 at 12:23:06 PM

That HISHE video was the tits and shit. I really liked how the Zemo parts were handled the most.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#60121: Jul 5th 2016 at 1:36:21 PM

That was the part I liked the least because it just feed into the complains of those who still haven't understood that Zemo would have simply adjusted his plan yet again.

Janet might become part of the Avengers. Since they went through great pains to point out that time works different wherever she is, she could emerge even younger than Hope.

Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#60122: Jul 5th 2016 at 1:41:58 PM

I feel trying to preserve Janet while benching Hank would be a good way to piss off a lot of people. Probably better at this point to just put the focus on Scott and Hope.

ManOfSin Since: Mar, 2015
#60123: Jul 5th 2016 at 1:47:57 PM

I doubt they want two active Wasps around. They would either go with Hope or Janet. Would love for them to go with the latter.

edited 5th Jul '16 1:51:58 PM by ManOfSin

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#60124: Jul 5th 2016 at 1:48:35 PM

There are two Hawkeyes. Two Spider-Mens. Two Captain Americas.

I'm sure the movies can handle two Wasps. But they probably won't.

edited 5th Jul '16 1:49:09 PM by Bocaj

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#60125: Jul 5th 2016 at 1:59:42 PM

They've already confirmed they plan to move forward with Hope as the Wasp, so that ship has kind of sailed.


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