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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#59926: Jun 26th 2016 at 6:42:36 PM

[up]What is it with Marvel and trying (and failing,) to make Cyclops the living reincarnation of Satan these days? Do they just not like Cyclops as a person? Do they have a hate-on for Cyclops because they grew up watching XTAS and thought he was an unlikable douche and are just trying to make their childhood impressions of Cyclops a reality? Are they just trying to turn him into some sort of scapegoat to make the X-Men look bad and prop up the Inhumans? Or maybe they just have a boner for Wolverine?tongue YOU MAKE THE CALL.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#59927: Jun 26th 2016 at 6:55:44 PM

Or maybe they just have a boner for Wolverine?
Well, probably not, since Wolverine is dead. (Okay, current Wolverine is dead. Old Man Logan is alive.)

Also, only current Cyclops is a dead terrorist. Teen Cyclops is still alive and a hero, although with a lot of, you know, issues about his grown up self. So it's less like "Marvel hates Cyclops" and more like "Marvel thinks Cyclops is boring, so it's trying to find some way to make him interesting, i.e. turn him into a terrorist like Magneto and then, when that doesn't work, kill him off."

edited 26th Jun '16 6:56:22 PM by alliterator

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#59928: Jun 27th 2016 at 12:21:02 AM

When I read 'Marvel Zombies' last page, I immediately thought of Marvel Zombies.

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#59929: Jun 27th 2016 at 12:34:44 AM

[up][up][up] The heroes of yesterday are the tarnished shitheads of today. Professor Xavier was the first and Cyclops, as more or less Xavier's apprentice, was the second. They were both turned into horrible monsters for story convenience. Even X:TAS never did anything with Cyke except make him a stick-in-the-mud by-the-books cop which worked because it let us cheer for Wolverine, the loose cannon on the edge.

Although, when looking back at it, it's all rather fucked up.

I mean, I can picture myself doing the same thing in Wolverine's position but it is very unhealthy. Although there is blame to go around - why the hell would you make him your Best Man? Salt in the wound doesn't even begin to describe it.

And the great irony is of course that when Scott and Jean actually got married in the comics, Wolverine sent them a letter of congratulations. Dunno if the current writers remember this. Given that they can't even remember Rachel Grey exists or was the Phoenix, I doubt it.

But yeah, Cyke has done some shit over the years. No one will ever forgive or forget what he did to Maddie and I personally call bullshit on assigning X-23 to his murder squad. That's just wrong on so many levels. I mean, pragmatically it makes sense but pragmatically, a lot o fhorrible, evil choices make sense.

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#59930: Jun 27th 2016 at 12:37:45 AM

[up]Tbf I don't think Scott in the animated series knew about Logan's feelings for Jean.

The Scott/Jean/Logan love triangle really does no favors to either character. Whatever can be said about X-Men Evolution at least it got rid of that tiredness.

edited 27th Jun '16 12:38:47 AM by windleopard

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#59931: Jun 27th 2016 at 1:17:35 AM

X-Men Evolution was a fantastic show and that is just one of its many positive aspects.

So the BVS thread exploded while I was away and catching up on it...Captain America was gonna let everyone die in Age of Ultron? Can someone clarify this?

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#59932: Jun 27th 2016 at 1:32:21 AM

Apparently, "Not killing everyone on and destroying Sokovia when it was going to become a extinction-level asteroid" is also "Letting seven billion people die." Yeah, I'm not buying it either.

Especially because, from what I remember, he was going to let them destroy Sokovia, he was just going to stay on it and die with everyone there.

edited 27th Jun '16 1:33:03 AM by alliterator

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#59933: Jun 27th 2016 at 1:35:00 AM

Were they referring to his resignment that he was probably going to die from city meteor? Because 'Captain America is physically incapable of doing jack shit about anyone surviving a city meteor' is a FAR cry from 'Captain America is willing to kill everyone'.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#59934: Jun 27th 2016 at 1:37:30 AM

No, it was "He isn't willing to destroy the city before it becomes a meteor."

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#59935: Jun 27th 2016 at 1:48:28 AM

Honestly, it was not really clear to me if what Cap did supposedly wrong was NOT blowing Sokovia out of the sky immediately or that he did intent to do it in order to rescue everyone else in the world, sacrificing himself in the process, but it doesn't really matter because Cap made the right decision, and it is completely in-character for him to do so. He is a soldier. He always tries to safe everyone, but he is also well aware that sometimes hard decisions have to be made. That's why he ordered Natasha to close the worm hole before Tony was back in The Avengers, and why he wanted to take down Shield once and for all instead of risking Hydra to be able to launch project insight.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#59936: Jun 27th 2016 at 1:51:55 AM

He pretty much said "I'm not willing to kill thousands of people to save millions," but then, since the city was ascending into the sky, all he really had to do was wait until everyone had asphyxiated and died anyway and then had the city destroyed.

Luckily, he didn't need to do that.

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#59937: Jun 27th 2016 at 1:53:21 AM

"Especially because, from what I remember, he was going to let them destroy Sokovia, he was just going to stay on it and die with everyone there. "

No, the bad part was Cap bow to save everyone, Ultron tell is pointless because the city is already in sky, and them.....it show Cap cant save anyone because the damn city is in the SKY.....and that it, Steve is just there like idiot until papa nick come with helicarrier ex machina that without agent of shield will be the mother off all asspulls

Is pretty much tie with Natsha/Bruce in the barn or Shirtless Thor as worst scene in Ao U because Steven dosent really do anything to save people aside of pushing robot, wheadon just write iselt into a corner and use deus ex machina to save itself, it was pretty bad

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#59938: Jun 27th 2016 at 2:06:01 AM

...none of your post made any sense, sorry. Usually I can decipher what you're trying to say, but nope.

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#59939: Jun 27th 2016 at 2:09:35 AM

[up]In short, that whole thing was pointless, Cap do nothing but punch robots and stay there when the obvious fact(he cant save anyone because is fucking city in the sky) is throw into his face, requiring deus ex machina to save him.

that it, is pretty mucht the movie petting Steve in the back for chosing the right thing and ignoring he coudnt do shit at all, it was just pointless

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#59940: Jun 27th 2016 at 2:13:33 AM

You do realize that this scene is not about Cap, but about Natasha? Cap will always jump on the next bomb. But Natasha deciding that accepting her death is the right thing to do in this situation, that is a huge character development for someone who is usually above all a survivor.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#59941: Jun 27th 2016 at 2:16:39 AM

[up][up] If you are saying that Cap was over his head, then...yeah. That's kind of the point. That's not so much a criticism as "Exactly what the movie was going for."

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#59942: Jun 27th 2016 at 2:19:19 AM

Are you faulting him for not being able to do anything aside from punch Ultron-bots?

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#59943: Jun 27th 2016 at 2:26:27 AM

[up][up][up]them it focus awfull lot on Steve since he said is going to save everyone, them stay there when it was clear he cant save eveyrone(even when Ultron already said it) and even there is pretty bad way to do it.

[up][up]So cap is idiot? good too know his behivor in Civil war was foreshow them

[up]I blame the writing for forcing cap in situation he cant solve beyond punching robot, once he stop pushing he was useless, the story pretty much bend over him in that moment

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#59944: Jun 27th 2016 at 2:29:57 AM

Being in over your head and being unable to affect a situation does not make you an idiot.

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#59945: Jun 27th 2016 at 2:33:22 AM

Except he could have affected the situation. Yes it would have been awful for them to blow up that city but it would have been even worse if it impacted the Earth. The issue with that scene is Steve basically refuses to destroy the city but gives no other alternative and it is only by the plot convenience of SHIELD showing up (to say nothing of how the only way you'd know SHIELD is operational is if you'd watch Agents of SHIELD because the presence of that Helicarrier is never explained in the film).

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#59946: Jun 27th 2016 at 2:36:10 AM

[up][up]It does when a deus ex machina is only thing that can save you and yet the movie fail to notice this, he said is going to save people, Ultron said it dosent matter because the city is in the sky and.....Ultron was right, in the moment Steve stop puching something he just stay there until papa nick come to save him with good deus ex machina

edited 27th Jun '16 2:37:01 AM by unknowing

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#59947: Jun 27th 2016 at 2:37:34 AM

Tony and Thor destroyed the city. Steve couldn't do anything aside from punch robots.

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#59948: Jun 27th 2016 at 2:42:02 AM

[up]them cut the damn scene or making work because aside of putting Steve on dead end, it does nothing to the plot.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#59949: Jun 27th 2016 at 2:47:28 AM

The focus isn't on Steve though, the focus is on Natasha. That scene is one of my favorites in the entire movie because it provides a calm moment of quiet introspection and a self-sacrificial sense of mortality inbetween the action scenes.

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#59950: Jun 27th 2016 at 2:50:35 AM

The scene may have wanted to focus on Natasha but Steve's actions get a lot of attention because of how glaring they are.


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