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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Punisher286 Since: Jan, 2016
#59826: Jun 23rd 2016 at 5:03:49 AM

Even Natasha calls him "Bucky" when she's talking to Cap. He seems to only be referred to as "James" in really serious and/or ominous moments.

yellowturtle from Nowhere Important Since: Feb, 2015 Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
#59827: Jun 23rd 2016 at 7:21:53 AM

@Mousa, was it this one?

[down] Oops, I missed a page of two.

edited 23rd Jun '16 9:52:55 AM by yellowturtle

Crow: There's a plot?
MousaThe14 Writer, Artist, Ignored from Northern Virginia Since: Jan, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Writer, Artist, Ignored
#59828: Jun 23rd 2016 at 7:59:09 AM

I already said Alley found the one I was talking about. But hey, cool, now we have a third one.

The Blog The Art
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#59829: Jun 23rd 2016 at 9:51:45 AM

Bookeem Woodbine from Fargo will be playing a third villain in Homecoming.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
MousaThe14 Writer, Artist, Ignored from Northern Virginia Since: Jan, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Writer, Artist, Ignored
#59832: Jun 23rd 2016 at 10:02:56 AM

I hope they're taking a Winter Soldier approach to the multiple baddies. Like one of them isn't a real plot-main villain but a sort of random street crime Spider-man takes down to show a day in his life.

The Blog The Art
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#59833: Jun 23rd 2016 at 10:09:00 AM

So do I. The last 2 Spider-Film continuities ended on the same villain issues.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#59834: Jun 23rd 2016 at 10:15:12 AM

Given that the MCU has handled multiple villains just fine in the past, I'm not worried.

Honestly, I think people blame the Spider-Man movies' problems on the number of villains too much.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#59835: Jun 23rd 2016 at 10:18:07 AM

Yeah, I'm thinking he is Tombstone, while Keaton is the Vulture and Logan Marshall-Green is Kraven? Possibly? Perhaps Tombstone is the one that hires Kraven to take out Spider-Man.

edited 23rd Jun '16 10:19:26 AM by alliterator

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#59836: Jun 23rd 2016 at 10:21:56 AM

I'm guessing most of the people in this movie are either glorified extras or Early Bird Cameos since they know they have two more movies all but guaranteed. Hopefully this is a film that can stand on its own and not feel like a giant ad for more.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#59837: Jun 23rd 2016 at 10:27:42 AM

[up][up] Didn't one of the writers or the director say that one of the villains was going to be The Tinkerer, or was that a rumor?

yellowturtle from Nowhere Important Since: Feb, 2015 Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
#59839: Jun 24th 2016 at 9:34:02 AM

[up] Oh okay. Have not seen something like that yet.

[up][up] It was a rumor after The Vulture hadn't been outright confirmed yet. Still looks like that it's status.

edited 24th Jun '16 9:35:22 AM by yellowturtle

Crow: There's a plot?
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#59840: Jun 24th 2016 at 9:46:36 AM

It would be hilarious if after all this speculation, most of these actors turn out to be playing Canon Foreigners.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#59841: Jun 24th 2016 at 9:49:21 AM

Okay, so there are a few solid gags making fun of the BvS twist. Good. I'm proud of you, Internet. Like a belligerent, geriatric grandpa, your obsession with weird porn is rivalled only by your uncomfortable opinions on women and minorities, but you always seem to have my back when I need a good joke.

Given that the MCU has handled multiple villains just fine in the past, I'm not worried.

The Russos handled multiple villains fine. By contrast, Thor The Dark World couldn't even manage two villains without gutting one for the sake of the other. Dare Devil fell apart the moment it introduced the other bad guy in season 2. And then there's Iron Man 2, which...well, it's Iron Man 2.

edited 24th Jun '16 9:49:58 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#59842: Jun 24th 2016 at 9:54:14 AM

Guardians of the Galaxy had. Uh. Three and three quarter villains?

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#59843: Jun 24th 2016 at 9:57:41 AM

Wait, I was wrong. Dark World had three villains. I forgot Kurse. Everyone forgets Kurse. That's actually fine, Kurse had exactly as much role as the film needed him to have, just like Batroc.

But they still gutted Malekith for the sake of Loki.

Guardians had....

  • Ronan the Accuser
  • Korath the Pursuer
  • The Collector
  • Nebula
  • Thanos (kinda)

and they did a fair job of balancing them.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Cross (Don’t ask)
#59844: Jun 24th 2016 at 10:00:35 AM

The Collector doesn't even count as an antagonist, let alone a villain.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#59845: Jun 24th 2016 at 10:01:03 AM

The Collector wasn't really a villain.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#59846: Jun 24th 2016 at 10:05:16 AM

He wasn't in the film but he's usually a villain in the comics. A typical Collector plot involves the Collector trying to steal an important MacGuffin and the heroes have to fight him to keep it out of his hands.

Much like Winter Soldier's balancing of five villains, the Collector's role in Guardians aptly demonstrates how using a villain character doesn't mean they have to be the villain. That's the problem a lot of movies run into with balancing multiple villains: they want each one to be the villain. Which means multiple narrative threads that each villain can be the villain of.

The same goes for Yondu, who is usually a hero character in the comics. Guardians got a lot of mileage out of him as a minor antagonist who undergoes an Enemy Mine for the sake of the climax.

edited 24th Jun '16 10:06:35 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#59847: Jun 24th 2016 at 10:06:34 AM

And I doubt some of the "villains" in Spider-Man: Homecoming will be villains — for instance, the Prowler was rarely a villain in the first place and more often is an ally of Spider-Man.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#59848: Jun 24th 2016 at 10:08:03 AM

Hell, right now, the Prowler is moonlighting as Spider-Man. He reinforces the "Spider-Man is Tony Stark's—I mean, Peter Parker's bodyguard" thing by wearing the costume and being seen with Peter.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#59849: Jun 24th 2016 at 10:23:48 AM

For some reason, I really want to see Montana, Ox, and Fancy Dan in the movie. And they could still work for the Big Man or Tombstone — really, you could combine those characters and it would work pretty well.

edited 24th Jun '16 10:24:59 AM by alliterator

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#59850: Jun 24th 2016 at 10:24:03 AM

Age of Ultron also had multiple villains. Four (five if you could Klaue), though two of them switched sides towards the end.

In the case of the Prowler, it wouldn't be the first time the MCU has adapted a "was once a villain but became a hero through Character Development" as a straightforward villain without much nuance. See again: Kurse.

And as for Dark World, I've always been dubious about the idea that Malekith would've immediately worked better if Loki had had less screentime. Even given that we know he had deleted scenes attributed to him, the story blatantly uses him as more of a plot-device to get balls rolling than a villain - it's this, rather than not having a lot of time, that its the big problem with him as an antagonist, and ultimately that's because when everything is said and done the story isn't about him: it's about Thor's relationships with his brother, his love interests, etc, with Malekith just being around to force him to interact with them. The only thing that would make that go away is a plot rewrite.

Even if Loki had gotten less time, Malekith (and the plot as a whole) would've either needed to be completely redesigned in order to be the villain everyone seems to think he would have been or the writers would've needed to have modified their approach to portraying him as he was (Guardians did a lot better job using a very similar villain, and in that case it was an issue of tone) - otherwise, being given more scenes could've easily been detrimental to his role in the plot rather than constructive.

In general, Loki is another source of misblaming in the MCU. But the Thor series is full of those easy scapegoats anyway.

For some reason, I really want to see Montana, Ox, and Fancy Dan in the movie. And they could still work for the Big Man or Tombstone — really, you could combine those characters and it would work pretty well.

It'd be cool if we got Spidey taking on the Enforcers in a scene like the truck chase in Amazing 2 - not plot important, but setting establishment via a classic Spidey action scene, showing Spider-Man taking on a normal day taking on criminals.

Dare Devil fell apart the moment it introduced the other bad guy in season 2.

In contrast, Daredevil season 1 had five overarching villains - counting the Russian brothers as one "villain" - plus The Dragon and various minions, and did just fine. The first season had the problem of not balancing what Matt was doing well with what the other characters were doing (something that continued into the next season), but that's not the fault of the number of villains.

And with the Hand that seems like a bad oversimplification. The issues inherent with them were far more numerous and problematic than simply existing as a second villain on top of another one already in use.

edited 24th Jun '16 10:43:51 AM by KnownUnknown


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