Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules
still apply.
- This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
- While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread
. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
- Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.
If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.
Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
America has a long history of painting every military conflict we're in as "plucky champions of justice rescuing X from oppression," and the fascination with it in literature is likewise long. It's been a staple of movies since the beginning. As Tobias said, the result is a huge cultural hero complex, where we're the only ones standing between evil oppression in all its myriad boogeyman forms and the way of life we're accustomed to.
As a result everywhere in pulp stories and early comics, especially wartime stuff, so it's everywhere in stories that evolved from those - like superheroes, any sci-fi inspired by Star Wars, etc.
edited 13th Jun '16 11:03:11 AM by KnownUnknown
I can't blame him. It's free entertainment, and we all know Thor loves a good fight.
I mean, he really doesn't have a horse in that race. More over, if he supported one side and that side lost...
edited 13th Jun '16 6:06:00 PM by Protagonist506
Leviticus 19:34I don't think so. He wasn't going after Ross for the past 8 years (and he was just kind of chilling out in Brazil until Ross came to him in TIH), and there's no evidence that Ross was going after him either. So I feel like, unless Ross is an active threat to him in the moment, Hulk prefers to, stay out of things.
Banner wouldn't side with Ross but I don't think he'd be with Cap either. The whole point of his arc in AOU was that he was forced to realize his dream that the Hulk could be a superhero and a force for good was just a delusion. I doubt he'd be interested in fighting for his right to be a hero without any oversight.
Banner would probably be all for the Accords - he's so far been all for controlling dangerous beings like himself and knows the danger of having them out there unchecked (it's just that the Hulk proves impossible to control), but there's no way in hell he would submit to Ross' authority under any circumstances. Bruce knew Ross to repeatedly hide his desire to control and weaponize powerful and gifted people behind more benevolent reasons, and even if Ross really has changed the way he thinks now Banner probably wouldn't believe him.
So he'd probably just avoid the whole situation. If he were in the movie, he'd probably be that one guy who actually does take the offer to leave and shows it as a viable if tragic alternative (similarly to how Rogue was used in X-Men 3).
edited 13th Jun '16 7:57:58 PM by KnownUnknown
Yes, he compared not knowing where Thor and Hulk are to him losing a nuke. So he would in no way let Banner go. Someone like Black Widow has an option to leave and quit the hero biz, but not Banner.
I mean, this is Ross, a man who said that every inch of Banner's body was owned by the US government.
Well, the options are registration or retirement...and I guess retirement implies "stop using your abilities". The Hulk can't retire, so Bruce's only option would be registration. Considering that he does not want to be under Ross' thumb, no matter what, he wouldn't agree to this version of the accords either, even though he likes the notion of oversight.
That's more or less exactly what happened at the end of The Incredible Hulk. Ross agreed to let Banner deal with the Abomination. Banner Hulked out, kicked his face in, and saved Ross and his daughter's lives in the process. Then Hulk left and, so far as we know, Ross never tried to capture him again.
When the Avengers were first being put together, Ross tried to get Abomination added to the roster for some f*cking reason but Coulson and Sitwell sabotaged his attempt by sending Stark to talk with him about it at Ross's favorite bar. The inevitable argument resulted in Stark purchasing and then bulldozing the establishment out of spite. So far as we know, that's the last time Ross and Stark met prior to Civil War too.
Not like the Avengers planned on letting him leave either. Widow was trying to convince him to come back and he didn't listen because the last time he tried to leave, she shoved him down a pit to weaponize him. At the end of Age of Ultron, they're still trying to track him down despite him making it clear that he doesn't want to be found.
With Thor, they know where he went: home to Asgard. But Banner's missing because he seized an opportunity to leave at a time when nobody was able to stop him, then went underground. Thor's taking a leave of absence, Banner's AWOL.
Putting Ross in an awkward position where he's entirely justified in being snippy about the Hulk but he's full of shit regarding Thor.
Retirement means "stop traveling the world seeking excuses to employ super-violence". If Banner wants to go retire to Detroit and live out his days there or something, there's no reason they wouldn't let him. But if he decides to Hulk out and go smash faces in Ontario, the Avengers would be on him as hard as they were on Cap because Banner, like the rest of them, no longer has universal legal immunity.
edited 14th Jun '16 8:11:30 AM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.![]()
There's not enough Avenegrs to do anything to Hulk. Iron man would get torn up unless he has another hulk buster, meanwhile war machine is down for the count, which leaves vision... black widow ain't gonna do shot unless she can calm him down again.
edited 14th Jun '16 9:44:17 AM by FictionWriterKing
IIRC, during his initial speech he's talking about himself and says something along the lines of "If you want to make a difference, you go into politics." Way I see it, Ross hasn't changed at all. He's simply refocused himself in a more effective way.
Of note regarding Ross becoming Secretary of Defense: the U.S. Army has a mandatory retirement age of 62. It's likely not a coincidence that he made his decision to enter politics when he's probably coming up on that, if he hasn't already passed it. A lot of decorated generals shift their career tracks to political ones when they get too old to serve.
edited 14th Jun '16 10:09:30 AM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.He also mentioned that he had had a heart attack like five years before the events of this film as well. And he even claims that that factored into his decision to go into politics.
It is kind of hilarious to think that the guy with such a dismal record of handling super-powered threats, managed to get himself appointed Secretary of State and is one of the people involved in this whole "monitoring the Avengers" thing. I'm actually surprised that no character in the film brought up his failure to contain/capture the Hulk for years, or him accidentally helping to create Abomination while trying to find a way to stop the Hulk (which makes the chaos in Harlem during TIH partially his fault as well).

Portraying rebellion in a post-dystopian society is pretty popular these days, yes. But remember, back in the '60s and '70s, there was also a trend of "lone man, accused of a crime he didn't commit, going alone against a conspiracy (most often in the government)" — The Fugitive, Incredible Hulk, The Invaders, etc. There were plenty of shows that were against "big government."