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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Ninety Absolutely no relation to NLK from Land of Quakes and Hills Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
Absolutely no relation to NLK
#58926: Jun 8th 2016 at 11:31:57 AM

Personally, I still believe that Captain America being partially or fully in the wrong was barely touched in the movie. In the way his scenes and dialogue were framed, he's never presented as in the wrong, and he sure as hell never seems to think he might be. The notion that Both Sides Have a Point is possibly intended by the audience, but the movie itself seems to have little interest in it. Like I said before, I walked out of the film thinking, "Man, I really wish Captain America would lose an argument for once".

Tony fucks up a lot bigger and more often, but a) everyone in-universe constantly reminds him, b) he doubts himself, and c) he tries to make amends. That can't be said for Steve.

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#58927: Jun 8th 2016 at 11:33:38 AM

I think it was touched on enough. I think part of it is that you have your own personal bias, Ninety (not meaning that as an insult).

edited 8th Jun '16 11:33:58 AM by AdricDePsycho

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#58928: Jun 8th 2016 at 11:36:59 AM

Nah, there's quite a lot of Pro-Steve fans who are pretty adamantly anti-Tony in principle too, for various reasons.

That's not what I meant. Being pro or anti a side is expected, but I feel like some Pro-Tony people are complaining about the movie allowing other fans to walk away saying "Cap was right". I have never seen this same sentiment from Pro-Steve fans and the whole affair just feels bewildering to me.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#58929: Jun 8th 2016 at 11:38:06 AM

ony fucks up a lot bigger and more often, but a) everyone in-universe constantly reminds him, b) he doubts himself, and c) he tries to make amends. That can't be said for Steve.

While I can agree that Steve could get more of a lecture or two, Cap did make amends at the end of the film. He turned over his shield, apologized and deferred leadership to Tony, and gave him a direct call line to the New Avengers even though, if Tony really wanted to, that could be used to trap and arrest the Anti-Regs. The last act of the movie convinced Steve that he couldn't rely on solely his own judgment anymore.

edited 8th Jun '16 11:39:04 AM by Tuckerscreator

flameboy21th The would-be novelist from California Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
The would-be novelist
#58930: Jun 8th 2016 at 11:38:39 AM

As a Team Cap fan I say Cap 3 is biased towards Cap (who'd have thought). Two members of team Tony defect to his side. A member of Team Tony shoots down an Avenger. Tony becomes a mad man near the end, and Tony has freaking Ross on his side.

Non Indicative Username
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#58931: Jun 8th 2016 at 11:40:14 AM

Not even Tony likes Ross, though. Like, nobody on either side gives a shit about Ross.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Ninety Absolutely no relation to NLK from Land of Quakes and Hills Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
Absolutely no relation to NLK
#58932: Jun 8th 2016 at 11:40:51 AM

Have you considered actually arguing against my points rather than insisting I'm badwrong?

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.
flameboy21th The would-be novelist from California Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
The would-be novelist
#58933: Jun 8th 2016 at 11:41:42 AM

Yes, but Tony still aligns with Ross. Ross is practically the straw man of Pro Accord side.

Non Indicative Username
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#58934: Jun 8th 2016 at 11:43:05 AM

[up][up]

I was going to, but the dude with the Entei avatar did it before I could type it up.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
indiana404 Since: May, 2013
#58935: Jun 8th 2016 at 11:45:16 AM

I think the conflict leading to an Avenger shot down would have been more poignant if someone on team Cap had crippled Rhodes, rather than it being Vision's fault. And I'd say Cap's final acts could be just as easily interpreted as him maintaining his position as sole authority, what with springing people from prison, and then leaving Tony a cell, essentially saying "sorry for lying to you and all, hope we're still friends, you know who to call when you need a real hero, k10xbye." There's no sign at all that he'll defer to Tony or anyone else. If anything, it's the opposite - he's leaving a Bat-signal for others to defer problems to him.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#58936: Jun 8th 2016 at 11:47:02 AM

My guess is they wanted it to be Vision because they plan to do something with that in Infinity War. Maybe now he's afraid of cutting loose or using his powers to their fullest because of what happened.

flameboy21th The would-be novelist from California Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
The would-be novelist
#58937: Jun 8th 2016 at 11:51:29 AM

[up][up]"I have 3 former Avengers and the king of Wakanda on my side. You have a kid, a cripple, and the guy who shot your friend. Bye."

edited 8th Jun '16 11:52:34 AM by flameboy21th

Non Indicative Username
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#58938: Jun 8th 2016 at 11:53:03 AM

Both side have a point? maybe but when it come down, the story side with Cap, as the acords did NOTHING but hinder Tony all the way: first he dosent bring to his suit which mean bucky kick his ass, them is bitched by Ross over and over, dosent know anything about Zemo which in part start the airport fight which take all avengers(remenber, neither Antman,Spiderman and Black panter are part of the team yet) leaving him alone, even them he only find out of Zemo because he intended too

Compare to that, Cap have remain team with him, Bucky is save in Wakanda thanks to Black panther, he gain new love interest and even them try to make ament with Tony.

So yeah, the story side with Cap

edited 8th Jun '16 12:03:25 PM by unknowing

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#58939: Jun 8th 2016 at 11:55:31 AM

Very Melon, what say you on this?

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
FictionWriterKing Since: Apr, 2016
#58941: Jun 8th 2016 at 12:01:50 PM

So Dr. Strange lego has some red Shuma-Gorath look alike. yea dont trust legos but what if Shuma-Gorath was in the film?

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#58942: Jun 8th 2016 at 12:02:33 PM

Doubtful. It'd be better to save him for another film.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
flameboy21th The would-be novelist from California Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
The would-be novelist
#58943: Jun 8th 2016 at 12:03:50 PM

He may appear in post credit scene.

Non Indicative Username
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#58944: Jun 8th 2016 at 12:12:06 PM

For people hoping to see them adapt the scene where Thor beats the shit out of Stark for choosing the wrong side, a thought occurs to me. The entire point of Thor's film was about learning humility, accepting limitations, and knowing when to defer to the wisdom of others. When to put aside the hammer and negotiate. When to be a politician instead of a warrior.

Are you guys sure he'd be on Cap's side?

edited 8th Jun '16 12:12:31 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
flameboy21th The would-be novelist from California Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
The would-be novelist
#58945: Jun 8th 2016 at 12:14:30 PM

Thor is not from Earth. How human governments deal with superheroes is outside his legislature. He wouldn't appreciate being called a warhead though.

Non Indicative Username
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#58946: Jun 8th 2016 at 12:18:32 PM

Thor operates as a superhero on Earth. Even if he's a foreign dignitary, he's still running around with Steve and Tony blowing shit up in Earth countries. He certainly is powerful enough to go, "F*ck your laws! I'm Thor and I can do whatever I want! Send me your mightiest champions and I will smite them just to show you how much I don't give a shit about your nations!" However, that's exactly the attitude that his trial in Thor was meant to break him of.

If he wishes to operate on Earth, then he still has to make a choice. Abide by the rules or don't. Team Stark or Team Cap. Given his experiences, I can't see him taking Cap's side.

He certainly didn't in Age of Ultron, where he voted on the Cap/Stark disagreement by using his lightning to awaken Vision despite Steve's concerns.

edited 8th Jun '16 12:19:15 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#58947: Jun 8th 2016 at 12:19:06 PM

[up][up][up]Thor could see Cap as another loki waiting to happen:a guy so arrogant to put his away before others

edited 8th Jun '16 12:19:44 PM by unknowing

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#58948: Jun 8th 2016 at 12:20:03 PM

Both side have a point? maybe but when it come down, the story side with Cap, as the acords did NOTHING but hinder Tony all the way: first he dosent bring to his suit which mean bucky kick his ass, them is bitched by Ross over and over, dosent know anything about Zemo which in part start the airport fight which take all avengers(remenber, neither Antman,Spiderman and Black panter are part of the team yet) leaving him alone, even them he only find out of Zemo because he intended too Compare to that, Cap have remain team with him, Bucky is save in Wakanda thanks to Black panther, he gain new love interest and even them try to make ament with Tony. So yeah, the story side with Cap

The Accords hindered Captain America as well, that's the whole reason he couldn't convince Iron Man's side to help at the airport. That, and without proof that didn't originate from Bucky, Iron Man would have no reason to believe him.

Tony didn't bring his full suit because he didn't have a reason too. As far as he knew, Bucky was locked up tight and incapable of hurting anyone or escaping his cage.

Thunderbolt Ross is dismissive of all the Avengers. When Steve asked if he'd get a trial, Ross laughs at it like the idea is a joke.

Both Captain America and Iron Man have their own teams of Avengers, Iron Man has his father's shield back, Iron Man's side isn't a pack of fugitives, and it is really weird to use something "Cap has a new love interest" in a debate like this.

edited 8th Jun '16 12:26:53 PM by VeryMelon

flameboy21th The would-be novelist from California Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
The would-be novelist
#58949: Jun 8th 2016 at 12:21:58 PM

If the Accord hinder both team. Then isn't the story against the Accord?

Non Indicative Username
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#58950: Jun 8th 2016 at 12:22:44 PM

Tony didn't bring his full suit because he didn't have a reason too. As far as he knew, Bucky was locked up tight and incapable of hurting anyone or escaping his cage.

Why he didn't have the Briefcase Suit, on the other hand, is anyone's guess.

Thunderbolt Ross is dismissive of all the Avengers. When Steve asked if he'd get a trail, Ross laughs at it like the idea is a joke.

That was Martin Freeman's confusingly pointless character, not Ross.

edited 8th Jun '16 12:23:15 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.

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