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Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
You tend to exaggerate any disagreement as hatred. I think you're a tad too conflict averse to see any reaosnable debate as anything other than some big fight that has to end pronto.
Sometimes disatisfaction with Captan America is just disatisfaction.
Besides for most people actual hatred would take too much energy for conversations like these.
edited 8th Jun '16 10:04:34 AM by MousaThe14
The Blog The ArtMaybe Marvel will show their diverse genre experiences by making Captain Marvel a musical.
Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?As a character, I like Cap fine. I just think he's wrong.
That's an important distinction to make in discussions like this. There's a difference between, "I think this character's choices are the wrong ones," and "I think this writing decision for the character was the wrong one." Like,
- Captain America flying off the handle when he finds out about Wanda's situation. Wrong thing to do. Good writing choice, entirely in-character for him. It was a very Captain America decision. It's just also the wrong decision.
- Captain America making out with Peggy's niece before her body's even cold. Wrong writing choice. This is a bad scene and it shouldn't exist.
Criticizing a character for making bad choices isn't the same as criticizing the writing for those choices being made. Characters have to make bad choices sometimes. If every character constantly made good choices, there would be no conflict. It would just be two hours of Dare Devil and Wolverine eating delicious BLT sandwiches.
edited 8th Jun '16 10:43:31 AM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.Don't get me wrong, I think Cap was in the wrong a bit too, but then nobody criticizes Tony for his stuff despite how the film is supposed to be grey and gray morality.
Then again, maybe we all kinda criticized Tony a lot from the beginning? I can't remember anymore.
Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?![]()
Tony gets a lot more shit in universe, so he's got plenty of criticism.
I mean, we mentioned it on either this thread, or the Civil War thread that people jump at the chance to shit on Tony (and to be fair, some of that may be his fault).
One Strip! One Strip!![]()
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Yeah. There's not really much to say that isn't already said by the characters. When Tony farts in public, every character reads off a prolonged essay about how F*ck-Up Tony has F*cked Up Again, that Rotten Dirty Bastard.
When Steve does it, the entire cast rushes over to take a big whiff and then talks at length about how his shit smells like perfume.
edited 8th Jun '16 10:54:17 AM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.Tony is always designed ot be wrong by default. It's almost too easy to list the reasons why he was wrong. His perfectly understandbale emotional repsonse to learnign bucky killed his parents was still attempted murder and pretty awful. he should have informed Wanda why she was being kept in the Avengers compound. He created Ultron which provoked the need for the Sokovia accords to begin with. He recruited a fifteen year old kid to fight other more trained Avengers.
Tony is always allowed to be wrong, he's ben self-destructively flawed since his first movie, it's how he's written. When Steve is wrong the writing does not try nearly as hard to emphasize it. That's where viewers with critical thinking skills come in.
EDIT: Or I can be ninja'd by a more apt but thoroughly digusting analogy.
edited 8th Jun '16 10:57:02 AM by MousaThe14
The Blog The ArtThat gets me too, which I pointed out before in the Civil War Spoiler thread. The Pro-Tony side seems to have a problem with the Pro-Steve side even existing, when the opposite has never occurred. Captain America 3 is Both Sides Have a Point: The Movie.
Granted, I'm not saying anything more than it's a feeling of mine from seeing how these discussions go down across the internet. My comment isn't meant to single out anyone.
edited 8th Jun '16 11:10:13 AM by VeryMelon
I'd say the film dodged the issue by finishing off with the two sides openly fighting over the tangentially related matter of Bucky, and then the anti-regs being imprisoned and sprung by Cap. Then again, at face value, the discussion could only end in two ways - either have the anti-regs have their way, essentially stating that unrestricted vigilantes operating globally is all fine and dandy; or just turn the team into G.I. Steve and call it a day. Possible HYDRA infiltration notwithstanding, I fail to see what's so wrong with the latter option. Sure, it doesn't fit with traditional superhero narratives, but neither did Tony doing a full disclosure instead of hiding behind a secret identity.
I still consider the phrase "I am Iron Man" to be the pivotal moment of modern superhero storytelling, and so far nothing from the big two has come nearly as close. Gender swaps? Meh. Character deaths? Lame in the 90's and lamer today. But actually ditching the masks - that takes some real brass.

Edit- Can't get links to work so getting rid of them.
edited 8th Jun '16 10:07:29 AM by Hodor2