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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#58901: Jun 8th 2016 at 9:55:53 AM

[up][up]It's a bit of both. Loki is Odin's blood-brother in Norse mythology and there's some myths where Odin is presented as this somewhat malevolent trickster figure (i.e. a lot like Loki). However, in a couple of well-known Norse myths, Loki and Thor are indeed a humorous double-act. Specifically, there's a story in the Prose Edda describing Thor and Loki visiting the confusingly named Utgard-Loki and there's the Thrymskvida in the Poetic Edda, where the two of them crossdress in order to retrieve Thor's hammer.

Edit- Can't get links to work so getting rid of them.

edited 8th Jun '16 10:07:29 AM by Hodor2

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#58902: Jun 8th 2016 at 10:00:56 AM

[up][up]

Yeah, but you've expressed hatred for Cap before, which made me kinda confused.

[up]

You should probably fix those links.

edited 8th Jun '16 10:01:24 AM by AdricDePsycho

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
MousaThe14 Writer, Artist, Ignored from Northern Virginia Since: Jan, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Writer, Artist, Ignored
#58903: Jun 8th 2016 at 10:04:00 AM

You tend to exaggerate any disagreement as hatred. I think you're a tad too conflict averse to see any reaosnable debate as anything other than some big fight that has to end pronto.

Sometimes disatisfaction with Captan America is just disatisfaction.

Besides for most people actual hatred would take too much energy for conversations like these.

edited 8th Jun '16 10:04:34 AM by MousaThe14

The Blog The Art
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#58904: Jun 8th 2016 at 10:05:52 AM

That's probably what it is, yeah. I should move on from this.

Anyways, changing topics, I saw some article that Chris Evans apparently thinks Allison Brie (or whoever it was they were considering for Captain Marvel) would be good for the role.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#58906: Jun 8th 2016 at 10:25:04 AM

Oh yeah, they were in Scott Pilgrim together.

Damn, I need to watch that movie again.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Cross (Don’t ask)
#58907: Jun 8th 2016 at 10:29:56 AM

Me too, might read the comics again while I'm at it.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#58908: Jun 8th 2016 at 10:39:44 AM

This just makes me hope Captain Marvel gets a musical number.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
flameboy21th The would-be novelist from California Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
The would-be novelist
#58910: Jun 8th 2016 at 10:41:12 AM

The Star-Adorned Woman wiiiiith aaaaaaaaa plaaaaaaaan.

Non Indicative Username
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#58911: Jun 8th 2016 at 10:42:17 AM

As a character, I like Cap fine. I just think he's wrong. tongue

That's an important distinction to make in discussions like this. There's a difference between, "I think this character's choices are the wrong ones," and "I think this writing decision for the character was the wrong one." Like,

  • Captain America flying off the handle when he finds out about Wanda's situation. Wrong thing to do. Good writing choice, entirely in-character for him. It was a very Captain America decision. It's just also the wrong decision.
  • Captain America making out with Peggy's niece before her body's even cold. Wrong writing choice. This is a bad scene and it shouldn't exist.

Criticizing a character for making bad choices isn't the same as criticizing the writing for those choices being made. Characters have to make bad choices sometimes. If every character constantly made good choices, there would be no conflict. It would just be two hours of Dare Devil and Wolverine eating delicious BLT sandwiches.

edited 8th Jun '16 10:43:31 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#58913: Jun 8th 2016 at 10:46:31 AM

Don't get me wrong, I think Cap was in the wrong a bit too, but then nobody criticizes Tony for his stuff despite how the film is supposed to be grey and gray morality.

Then again, maybe we all kinda criticized Tony a lot from the beginning? I can't remember anymore.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#58914: Jun 8th 2016 at 10:46:38 AM

[up][up][up]you say that like it's a bad thing.

edited 8th Jun '16 10:47:04 AM by windleopard

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#58915: Jun 8th 2016 at 10:50:52 AM

[up][up]

Tony gets a lot more shit in universe, so he's got plenty of criticism.

I mean, we mentioned it on either this thread, or the Civil War thread that people jump at the chance to shit on Tony (and to be fair, some of that may be his fault).

One Strip! One Strip!
Cross (Don’t ask)
#58916: Jun 8th 2016 at 10:51:56 AM

[up][up][up]Really? I've seen quite a few people that have done that especially after Civil War.

edited 8th Jun '16 10:53:43 AM by Cross

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#58917: Jun 8th 2016 at 10:52:39 AM

[up]Mostly because someone(me) feel the movie can be call "shit happen to tony stark" I mean jeez, he didnt have so much shit since Iron man 3 and in that end in positive ending, compare with this is just depressing

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#58918: Jun 8th 2016 at 10:52:48 AM

[up][up][up]Yeah. There's not really much to say that isn't already said by the characters. When Tony farts in public, every character reads off a prolonged essay about how F*ck-Up Tony has F*cked Up Again, that Rotten Dirty Bastard.

When Steve does it, the entire cast rushes over to take a big whiff and then talks at length about how his shit smells like perfume.

edited 8th Jun '16 10:54:17 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
MousaThe14 Writer, Artist, Ignored from Northern Virginia Since: Jan, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Writer, Artist, Ignored
#58919: Jun 8th 2016 at 10:55:25 AM

Tony is always designed ot be wrong by default. It's almost too easy to list the reasons why he was wrong. His perfectly understandbale emotional repsonse to learnign bucky killed his parents was still attempted murder and pretty awful. he should have informed Wanda why she was being kept in the Avengers compound. He created Ultron which provoked the need for the Sokovia accords to begin with. He recruited a fifteen year old kid to fight other more trained Avengers.

Tony is always allowed to be wrong, he's ben self-destructively flawed since his first movie, it's how he's written. When Steve is wrong the writing does not try nearly as hard to emphasize it. That's where viewers with critical thinking skills come in.

EDIT: Or I can be ninja'd by a more apt but thoroughly digusting analogy.

edited 8th Jun '16 10:57:02 AM by MousaThe14

The Blog The Art
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#58920: Jun 8th 2016 at 10:57:14 AM

I still find it weird because, even then, they're both supposed to be a bit in the wrong, which makes me baffled how people say the narrative paints Cap as being in the right.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Cross (Don’t ask)
#58921: Jun 8th 2016 at 10:57:55 AM

And here I was about to make a joke about us cycling back to Tony recruiting "child soldiers".

edited 8th Jun '16 10:58:32 AM by Cross

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#58922: Jun 8th 2016 at 11:01:16 AM

I still find it weird because, even then, they're both supposed to be a bit in the wrong, which makes me baffled how people say the narrative paints Cap as being in the right.

That gets me too, which I pointed out before in the Civil War Spoiler thread. The Pro-Tony side seems to have a problem with the Pro-Steve side even existing, when the opposite has never occurred. Captain America 3 is Both Sides Have a Point: The Movie.

Granted, I'm not saying anything more than it's a feeling of mine from seeing how these discussions go down across the internet. My comment isn't meant to single out anyone.

edited 8th Jun '16 11:10:13 AM by VeryMelon

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#58923: Jun 8th 2016 at 11:11:08 AM

Marvel's take on Thor isn't too dissimilar from this painting by a Swedish artist in 1872.

edited 8th Jun '16 11:11:32 AM by Bocaj

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
indiana404 Since: May, 2013
#58924: Jun 8th 2016 at 11:26:22 AM

I'd say the film dodged the issue by finishing off with the two sides openly fighting over the tangentially related matter of Bucky, and then the anti-regs being imprisoned and sprung by Cap. Then again, at face value, the discussion could only end in two ways - either have the anti-regs have their way, essentially stating that unrestricted vigilantes operating globally is all fine and dandy; or just turn the team into G.I. Steve and call it a day. Possible HYDRA infiltration notwithstanding, I fail to see what's so wrong with the latter option. Sure, it doesn't fit with traditional superhero narratives, but neither did Tony doing a full disclosure instead of hiding behind a secret identity.

I still consider the phrase "I am Iron Man" to be the pivotal moment of modern superhero storytelling, and so far nothing from the big two has come nearly as close. Gender swaps? Meh. Character deaths? Lame in the 90's and lamer today. But actually ditching the masks - that takes some real brass.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#58925: Jun 8th 2016 at 11:30:49 AM

[up][up][up]

Nah, there's quite a lot of Pro-Steve fans who are pretty adamantly anti-Tony in principle too, for various reasons.


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