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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#58551: Jun 5th 2016 at 12:29:42 PM

I mean, even Civil War had her basically say she worries she's just going to be a lesser Peggy. It basically sabotaged itself, unless her character arc deals with her concerns that everyone around her including Cap just sees her as Peggy 2.0, a la Lyle Dylandy from Gundam 00. At least it's still less creepy than the original plans to literally have Sharon played by Haley Atwell in a blonde wig and fake American accent.

edited 5th Jun '16 12:30:38 PM by AlleyOop

shatterstar Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I wanna know about these strangers like me
#58552: Jun 5th 2016 at 12:35:36 PM

[up] So... the original plan is to basically let Sharon be the Ben Reilly to Peggy's Peter Parker?

[up], [down] I feel like that more of a joke rather than something seriously considered.

edited 5th Jun '16 12:41:20 PM by shatterstar

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#58553: Jun 5th 2016 at 12:40:28 PM

[up][up]Was that ever planned? I know Atwell said she'd be up for donning a blond wig to play Sharon, but I don't know if that was ever discussed in an official capacity.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#58554: Jun 5th 2016 at 12:42:14 PM

I don't think that Sharon is like Peggy exactly because of those lines. They clarified the biggest difference between them: Peggy was a trailblazer. Sharon on the other hand had to live up to a legacy her whole life. Her perspective on everything, including Steve, is inherently different, as is her character. Peggy was a lot of things, but playing politics was never something she did particularly well. She was way too direct for that. Sharon on the other hand is very good in reading people and situations and positioning herself on the right side while still knowing exactly when it is better to shut up and when the moment to act and/or bail comes. Take Winter Soldier. She called out Pierce on the reasons for the manhunt on Steve from the get-go, but she also stuck around and laid low until the moment to act came, and then she immediately secured herself a spot at the CIA. He behaviour in Civil War is very similar, helping Cap from the background.

Haley Atwell's fake accents are amazing btw.

edited 5th Jun '16 12:43:03 PM by Swanpride

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#58555: Jun 5th 2016 at 2:14:01 PM

I feel like dating the former boyfriend of the woman who's legacy you're struggling under sounds rather, un-fun

Falrinn Since: Dec, 2014
#58556: Jun 5th 2016 at 2:48:34 PM

Starting from the assumption that the Sharon/Steve romance was going to happen in Civil War, I think a best way to handle it would of been for them to already be dating at the start of the movie, and make it clear that Steve didn't know that she was related to Peggy when they first went out (maybe have Steve jokingly give Natasha a hard time about her setting him up with his ex-girlfriend's niece, revealing that she didn't know either with her response).

That would remove the bulk of the creep factor. And everyone involved can just shrug and awknowlage "yeah it's a little weird, but we are just rolling with it".

Then it's just a case of revealing what happened to her at the end of the movie since she was left in an ambiguous state. While there are plenty of ways to do it, I would of given Stan Lee a different cameo and then had Sharon Carter be the one to deliver Steve's message (in disguise, but one that Tony sees through but doesn't directly acknowledge out loud) to Tony at the end of the movie.

edited 5th Jun '16 2:49:03 PM by Falrinn

HallowHawk Since: Feb, 2013
#58557: Jun 5th 2016 at 2:58:06 PM

[up]

Starting from the assumption that the Sharon/Steve romance was going to happen in Civil War, I think a best way to handle it would of been for them to already be dating at the start of the movie, and make it clear that Steve didn't know that she was related to Peggy when they first went out (maybe have Steve jokingly give Natasha a hard time about her setting him up with his ex-girlfriend's niece, revealing that she didn't know either with her response).

Maybe they were dating post-Winter Soldier, albeit with Sharon still calling herself "Kate", and that, what surprised Steve in London was that, when "Sharon Carter" was called up to give an eulogy, "Kate" came up, outing herself as Sharon.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#58558: Jun 5th 2016 at 3:16:40 PM

I think they should have had Sharon briefly appear at the victory party in AOU as Steve's date, if they intended to seriously pursue it.

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#58559: Jun 5th 2016 at 3:36:28 PM

I would have appreciated that.

Pseudopartition Screaming Into The Void from The Cretaeceous Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Screaming Into The Void
#58560: Jun 5th 2016 at 4:24:09 PM

These are all great ideas, but I'm mostly just laughing at the image of Sharon in an obviously fake mustache and wig talking to Tony.

And the Vision buying it.

edited 5th Jun '16 4:26:57 PM by Pseudopartition

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#58561: Jun 5th 2016 at 4:44:13 PM

The party was seriously lacking the presence of female supporting cast members. Pepper, Sharon, Jane and even Betty being there would have been great, even if they didn't stay until the end.

Falrinn Since: Dec, 2014
#58562: Jun 5th 2016 at 5:58:02 PM

[up][up] I was thinking something more like a completely different hairstyle and wearing a pair of dark sunglasses, but I like your idea better. tongue

Though seriously, they really should of revealed what happened to Sharon. Something as simple as her being in the scene with Steve in Wakanda would of been enough. She wouldn't of had to say or do anything, just awkwardly standing around in the background would of been enough for me.

edited 5th Jun '16 5:58:13 PM by Falrinn

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#58563: Jun 5th 2016 at 6:12:57 PM

In Pepper and Jane's cases it was extremely likely due to contract issues not worth renegotiating just for a cameo rather than a lack of desire to include them in the film at all.

Falrinn Since: Dec, 2014
#58564: Jun 5th 2016 at 6:24:49 PM

[up] That's probably accurate.

I actually think the main reason they had Pepper and Tony break up off-screen was because they were tired up coming up with an excuse for why Pepper isn't in a movie every time Tony is.

Now they easily can bring Pepper back when and if they have a cool storyline for her, but they won't have to concoct a new excuse if she doesn't show up in Spider-Man: Homecoming, where Tony is already slated to appear in.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#58565: Jun 5th 2016 at 7:49:39 PM

I remember when AOU was filming, Paltrow made a comment about how she was getting too old to still be doing these movies. I do wonder if they could get her to come back for one of the Infinity War movies.

ExplosiveLion Since: Mar, 2016 Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
#58566: Jun 5th 2016 at 10:38:35 PM

[up][up][up][up][up]

Yeah, well, maybe I'd buy Pepper being there. But there's no indication that Sharon and Steve remained in contact and they weren't even really friends ergo she wouldn't have anything to do there, Betty is a Meta-Forgotten character that Bruce apparently had no interest in looking up (as he had been in the public eye for at least three years when Ao U happened, so he wasn't a fugitive anymore therefore wouldn't have a reason to keep away from her), and Jane... well, she might be able to go to an Avengers party, but seriously, if I never see that character in a movie again it'd be too soon.

edited 5th Jun '16 10:39:13 PM by ExplosiveLion

shatterstar Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I wanna know about these strangers like me
#58567: Jun 5th 2016 at 10:43:09 PM

[up] Wow. Just one bad portrayal and Jane suddenly turned into the zit of the MCU that everyone wants to get rid of.

FictionWriterKing Since: Apr, 2016
#58568: Jun 6th 2016 at 2:46:55 AM

I want to say just because Steve and Sharon kissed does not mean they are boyfriend and girlfriend -_-. Peggy and Steve were lovers. That was romance.

edited 6th Jun '16 3:00:37 AM by FictionWriterKing

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#58569: Jun 6th 2016 at 4:00:48 AM

If they had to go for Cap/Sharon, I think they did it as well as possible. For one, I like what I have seen of Sharon so far, she feels like a very interesting character and I wouldn't mind to see more of her (hence why I really want this Black Widow Spy movie with her as supporting character). And two, I think it was important that Steve was interested in her before he knew who she really was, but it is equally important that she doesn't start a relationship with him without telling him the truth. He deserved to know beforehand.

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#58570: Jun 6th 2016 at 4:15:00 AM

It is becoming noticeable now that male supportive cast get to cross over but female supporting cast don't.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#58571: Jun 6th 2016 at 4:34:46 AM

I don't recall seeing Happy Hogan or Luis. The only support cast that crosses over are the superheroes.

edited 6th Jun '16 4:36:42 AM by PushoverMediaCritic

Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#58572: Jun 6th 2016 at 5:17:23 AM

[up][up]

You're forgetting one simple thing: pregnancy.

Whedon's gone on record to have wanted Jane to make a cameo in Avengers, but couldn't because Natalie Portman was pregnant at the time. And from what I've heard, Hope's lack of appearance in Civil War is also due to Evangeline Lilly being pregnant.

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#58573: Jun 6th 2016 at 6:19:16 AM

Ah, that's a good point.

Plus, of the male supporting cast that gets to cross over, I'm glad that Rhody and Sam are the major two.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#58574: Jun 6th 2016 at 6:35:37 AM

Yeah what it says is more akin to that there are disproportionately more male heroes than female ones.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#58575: Jun 6th 2016 at 8:00:23 AM

But there's no indication that Sharon and Steve remained in contact and they weren't even really friends ergo she wouldn't have anything to do there

That's why I just said IF they were going to suddenly push the romance in CW out of nowhere, they should have had her show up in a cameo at the party to at least explain she and Steve were dating. It'd be jarring but less so than what we ended up with.

It's becoming noticeable now that male supportive cast get to cross over but female supporting cast don't.

That just highlights the issue of there being way more male superheroes than female ones. It makes logical sense for Falcon and War Machine to show up in various situations, but less so for someone like Jane.

And from what I've heard, Hope's lack of appearance in Civil War is also due to Evangeline Lilly being pregnant.

One of several. The other big one is they said they felt it'd be disrespectful to have the Wasp's big, long-awaited cinematic debut happen in a movie where she'd be overshadowed by the likes of Black Panther and Spider-Man, particularly since her role was planned to be small from the get go. (No pun intended)

edited 6th Jun '16 8:03:11 AM by comicwriter


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