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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#58351: Jun 3rd 2016 at 12:26:06 PM

Well I've brought it up twice and people here keep ignoring it to talk about the damn Ancient One bullshit.

Look, I'm pissed off about the casting of the Ancient One as much as everyone else is, but we've discussed that to hell and back on at least three different threads now.

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Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#58352: Jun 3rd 2016 at 12:26:35 PM

For Latino representation, there's two really easy picks: Nova and Ghost Rider. Though preferably I'd rather have Richard Ryder and Johnny Blaze race-lifted than trying to bring in Sam Alexander or Robbie Reyes, more because of icon status than anything else.

edited 3rd Jun '16 12:27:52 PM by Watchtower

DeathsApprentice The Ultimate Lifeform from The Ark Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
The Ultimate Lifeform
#58353: Jun 3rd 2016 at 12:27:39 PM

What Latino superheroes are there in the comics, anyway? I know there's Miles Morales, who probably can't show up for a while since Peter is still 15 in the MCU, and Anya Corazon, but that's all I know.

[up] Nova is Latino? I did not know that.

edited 3rd Jun '16 12:28:14 PM by DeathsApprentice

When we're done, there won't be anything left.
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#58354: Jun 3rd 2016 at 12:28:32 PM

And it's unlikely we'll get either of those characters, considering James Gunn doesn't like Nova and Ghost Rider would be too expensive for a Netflix series.

White Tiger is Hispanic, why not use him in a Netflix series or something?

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
FictionWriterKing Since: Apr, 2016
#58355: Jun 3rd 2016 at 12:28:55 PM

POC in general need forefront roles now in not only Marvel Studio's superhero films but Fox, WB, Sony, etc. Side characters and minor characters are primarily POC. I'm sick of watching the title characters be white (males). Thankfully, studios are starting to use their POC characters for primary roles (Cyborg, Black Panther, Aquaman). It's like they forget Marvel/DC has a huge list of POC -__-'. I understand a great deal of them are written offensively but still... there's over 100! Watching Hollywood I sometimes feel like I am still working at Dunkin' Donuts. Almost all of our staff was borderline middle class POC while the customers were far above middle class white

edited 3rd Jun '16 12:33:45 PM by FictionWriterKing

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#58356: Jun 3rd 2016 at 12:29:30 PM

As noted, there's Sam Alexander for Nova and two separate Hispanic Ghost Riders: the Nicaraguan Alejandra and the Mexican-American Robbie Reyes.

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DeathsApprentice The Ultimate Lifeform from The Ark Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
The Ultimate Lifeform
#58357: Jun 3rd 2016 at 12:30:46 PM

Oh, right, I forgot about White Tiger. White Tiger would be a good fit for the Netflix corner of the MCU.

When we're done, there won't be anything left.
Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#58358: Jun 3rd 2016 at 12:31:18 PM

Ghost Rider's already handled two films, he could probably manage a reboot.

And Gunn's kinda come off as a bit of a jackass, from what I've read. I mean, yeah, Guardians of the Galaxy was great, but c'mon.

thatindiantroper Since: Feb, 2015
#58359: Jun 3rd 2016 at 12:32:04 PM

As for Ghost Rider, you'd have to wait a bit to get to the latino ones but you could race bend Danny Ketch. He's not really iconic enough for anyone to get their knickers in a twist.

Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#58360: Jun 3rd 2016 at 12:33:10 PM

Again, why not just go straight for Johnny Blaze?

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#58361: Jun 3rd 2016 at 12:34:07 PM

I have no idea, to be honest, I'm not a big Ghost Rider fan.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
wehrmacht belongs to the hurricane from the garden of everything Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
belongs to the hurricane
#58362: Jun 3rd 2016 at 12:35:04 PM

They could go for a Composite Character and Race Bend Johnny Blaze, incorporating aspects from Robbie and other Ghost Riders.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#58363: Jun 3rd 2016 at 12:35:33 PM

Why not go straight for Robbie Reyes? His story is more in line with the tone of the other Netflix series, it's a well-received one, easy to get into for GR newbies, and probably easier on the budget than Johnny Blaze's stories. Only real issue with it is how they're going to work around Dr. Zabo. Johnny also does show up towards the end for the people who do like him, and they could use him to do any necessary Exposition Dump as well as possibly build towards his own series.

edited 3rd Jun '16 12:40:32 PM by AlleyOop

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#58364: Jun 3rd 2016 at 12:35:52 PM

No, it was the Tibet issue that prompted them to move the setting to Nepal. It was sidestepping the "Wise Asian Master" cliché that prompted them to cast Tilda Swinton.

Yeah, I still don't believe that. In the actual video with the writer, he says that they weren't going to make her any other Asian ethnicity because that would open up a whole other can of worms (presumably referring to the Interchangeable Asian Cultures stereotypes). When it's brought up that they couldn't have Ancient One be Tibetan, he explicitly goes out of his way to address the suggestions that they could have worked around the issues by casting a Chinese woman like Michelle Yeoh, and says you'd have to be crazy to not see the minefield there behind making a Tibetan character Chinese.

edited 3rd Jun '16 12:36:20 PM by comicwriter

thatindiantroper Since: Feb, 2015
#58365: Jun 3rd 2016 at 12:37:21 PM

Again, why not just go straight for Johnny Blaze?

Hey Blaze is my favorite too, but with the Cage films hanging over his head it might be a better idea to do him a mentor to Danny. Danny becomes the Rider and then Johnny shows up in town to investigate, having had all his adventures and being freed years ago.

Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#58366: Jun 3rd 2016 at 12:39:36 PM

Why not go straight for Robbie Reyes?

Iconic factor, mostly. There have been many Ghost Riders, but to a lot of people Blaze is the Ghost Rider.

There's also the fact that Ghost Rider's famous as a Badass Biker, but Reyes's whole schtick is driving a Cool Car. Sure, you can give him the bike, but then why are you still using him?

edited 3rd Jun '16 12:40:08 PM by Watchtower

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#58367: Jun 3rd 2016 at 12:40:35 PM

I just find it weird that there's a lot of characters who are Asian that the MCU hasn't tapped yet, but there's arguably less Latino characters.

I mean, there's some Young Avengers character named America Chavez, but the likelihood of her being in the movies is pretty low due to her being gay and China getting their panties in a wad over homosexual characters.

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FictionWriterKing Since: Apr, 2016
#58368: Jun 3rd 2016 at 12:41:05 PM

Why not just use Hummingbird or El Aguila? bah forget about EA. Black Tarantula?

edited 3rd Jun '16 12:48:57 PM by FictionWriterKing

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#58369: Jun 3rd 2016 at 12:42:06 PM

I didn't even know that character existed until just now.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#58370: Jun 3rd 2016 at 12:42:17 PM

The trouble with Ghost Rider is that I think he's too expensive for a Netflix show, which is the most likely place for him to appear.

Nova is probably the mostly likely Latino hero. Gunn doesn't like him, but he also said his dislike of the character wouldn't preclude him from getting a solo movie. As we're getting into Phase 4, Nova is one of the few really obvious remaining characters with potential for a solo movie.

edited 3rd Jun '16 12:43:37 PM by comicwriter

higherbrainpattern Since: Apr, 2012
#58371: Jun 3rd 2016 at 12:43:30 PM

[up]x4: Listen, if Marvel Studios wanted to introduce a gay character into the movies, they would. Movies can make a profit without targeting the Chinese box office. I mean, just look at Deadpool.

Marvel Studios making excuses about the Chinese box office is just a smokescreen, IMO.

edited 3rd Jun '16 12:43:55 PM by higherbrainpattern

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#58372: Jun 3rd 2016 at 12:43:40 PM

I'd be down for Arana showing up in the Spider-Man solo series. She's fun. Maybe that's who Zendaya will be playing.

[up] Are you implying Marvel's reluctance to use LGBT characters is motivated by active anti-LGBT bias? Because the Russos' comments on that matter basically confirmed it is indeed a matter of Money, Dear Boy more than anything else.

edited 3rd Jun '16 12:45:04 PM by AlleyOop

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#58373: Jun 3rd 2016 at 12:44:39 PM

Yeah, I still don't believe that. In the actual video with the writer, he says that they weren't going to make her any other Asian ethnicity because that would open up a whole other can of worms (presumably referring to the Interchangeable Asian Cultures stereotypes). When it's brought up that they couldn't have Ancient One be Tibetan, he explicitly goes out of his way to address the suggestions that they could have worked around the issues by casting a Chinese woman like Michelle Yeoh, and says you'd have to be crazy to not see the minefield there behind making a Tibetan character Chinese.

To be clear here:

Scriptwriter Robert Cargill said

There is no other character in Marvel history that is such a cultural landmine, that is absolutely unwinnable... I could tell you why every single decision that involves the Ancient One is a bad one...

If you are telling me you think it’s a good idea to cast a Chinese actress as a Tibetan character, you are out of your damn fool mind and have no idea what the fuck you’re talking about. He originates from Tibet, so if you acknowledge that Tibet is a place and that he’s Tibetan, you risk alienating one billion people.

But, it should be noted, Scriptwriter Robert Cargill is a scriptwriter. He is not a director. He's not a producer. His job is to write a script, collect a paycheck, and then f*ck off. He was never - at any point - involved in the decision to cast Tilda Swinton; only in the writing of her character. He's just sharing his opinion for why he thinks whitewashing the character was a good call.

Kevin Feige, who was absolutely involved in the decision to cast Tilda Swinton, said this:

The casting of the Ancient One was a major topic of conversation in the development and the creative process of the story. We didn’t want to play into any of the stereotypes found in the comic books, some of which go back as far as 50 years or more.

We felt the idea of gender-swapping the role of the Ancient One was exciting. It opened up possibilities, it was a fresh way into this old and very typical story line. Why not make the wisest bestower of knowledge in the universe to our heroes in the particular film a woman instead of a man?

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comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#58374: Jun 3rd 2016 at 12:44:47 PM

The thing is, movie studios like the most money possible. Saying they could make a lot of money is never gonna convince them as long as they know there is more money to be made. I'm gay myself and unfortunately I can't say that "Hey, let's cut off a viable profit source" is a sound business decision. They are at the end of the day, a business.

[up]And as I said before, like with the "Uh, we might get gay people down the line", it's a nice smokescreen answer. He's not gonna come right out and say it. I'm sure people at Marvel were very annoyed that the writer bluntly said "Yeah, it's because of China." Nobody wants to actually be seen admitting that, just like they aren't gonna admit lack of LGBT characters in he movie is because of the Chinese market too. They're very image conscious, and those two are much more appealing-sounding (though not very) than the ugly truth.

And like I said previously, if they were worried Asian martial arts master was racist, we wouldn't be getting Colleen Wing in Iron Fist.

edited 3rd Jun '16 12:53:02 PM by comicwriter

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#58375: Jun 3rd 2016 at 12:46:18 PM

[up][up][up]

I'd be pretty mad about that, in all honesty. Zendaya isn't Latino, she's black. I just want a Hispanic character played by an actual Hispanic actor, not someone from Spain or someone who is a light shade of black. Give me a legit Hispanic person to play them.

edited 3rd Jun '16 12:46:30 PM by AdricDePsycho

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