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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#58226: Jun 2nd 2016 at 1:36:23 PM

Mid thirties is implausibly young to be a colonel, yes, I kind of understand that she was given the title as a kind if honouration because she was retiring? She's certainly a lot older than she looks in the comics as its been stated that her super DNA has stopped her aging.

Considering that Spiderman is now thirty in the comics, and he was fifteen in his first appearances in 1962, even at a convervative guess at the weird time line if the 616, Carol should be late forties now at least.

EDIT: Fiction Writer King's post is better researched than mine.

Wow that's a lot of retcons.

edited 2nd Jun '16 1:39:10 PM by Whowho

FictionWriterKing Since: Apr, 2016
#58227: Jun 2nd 2016 at 1:45:37 PM

Yes most Marvel characters are like that. ugh mind blowing confusion.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#58228: Jun 2nd 2016 at 1:54:52 PM

If we go by the 10 year timeline, Uncanny X-Men #164 said Carol saw Apollo launch as a teenager. That implies she was born in the 50s. Then in Marvel volume 2 issue 25, young adult Carol is at Cape Canaveral where a space shuttle is involved (obviously 80s). This implies she was born in the late 60s. Etc

Adding a bit of context to this, Uncanny X-Men #164 was printed in 1982 while Ms. Marvel V2 #25 was printed in 2008.

So, for the sake of the sliding timescale, Carol's generally depicted as having around 3-4 decades under her belt.

edited 2nd Jun '16 1:55:05 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Whowho Since: May, 2012
#58229: Jun 2nd 2016 at 2:00:12 PM

Part of the appeal of Carol to me is that she's spent more time in active duty than Steve Rodgers Captain America.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#58230: Jun 2nd 2016 at 2:47:54 PM

Again, I really don't find the specifics all that integral. I hadn't even considered that she's longer serving than Steve until someone mentioned it.

And at 29-30, she still could be. Steve was only active in the army for several years before he was frozen.

edited 2nd Jun '16 2:48:27 PM by comicwriter

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#58232: Jun 2nd 2016 at 2:59:26 PM

He got unfrozen in what? 2012? It's feasible.

I do wonder if they're intending to have Brie (in the event of casting her) Playing Gertrude.

I hope who ever they cast can give a performance which informs the character's experience regardless.

The Rhodey/Carol ship would be really inappropriate though, and I'd be sad to see an interracial relationship cut. They're kind of gold dust, especially with MOC. Bleh, why would Marvel consider someone so young? Outside of Money My Dear Boy.

EDIT: It seems Brie has a history of playing g characters of ages completely different from her own, which fills me with some confidence.

edited 2nd Jun '16 3:06:48 PM by Whowho

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#58233: Jun 2nd 2016 at 3:24:38 PM

Comics Rhodey/Carol was a little bit on the wrong side of Strangled by the Red String in execution to begin with so while I understand the value of seeing it make it to the big screen I'm indifferent towards it overall. Especially if they decide to make Carol LGBT in recompense.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#58234: Jun 2nd 2016 at 3:25:09 PM

He got unfrozen in what? 2012? It's feasible.
Steve got unfrozen around fifteen to twenty years ago in the comics. Using Marvel's sliding timescale (which is 4:1), it's been about 13.25 years since he was unfrozen, which makes it 2003.

However, he did spend ten years in Dimension Z as well, so we should add that to his experience. 13.25 + 4 years of WWII + 10 years of dimension Z = 27.5 years of experience.

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#58235: Jun 2nd 2016 at 3:31:17 PM

It's kind of funny though that MCU Cap is basically the same (biological) age as Chris Evans and wasn't operating that long before being frozen. It helps that his secondary powers include being a strong tactician and charismatic leader. And I give a lot of props to Evans for seeming so seasoned and world weary despite being one of the younger actors.

And I'm kind of surprised that Hayley Atwell is the same age as Evans because Peggy definitely feels a couple of years older than Steve at the point in which they met/she appears in Agent Carter.

So yeah, I guess it does work out that Larson is about the same age as Evans when he started, but overall, I think mid to late 30s seems the right age for the actress/character.

edited 2nd Jun '16 3:33:54 PM by Hodor2

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#58236: Jun 2nd 2016 at 3:36:32 PM

MCU Peggy is supposed to be a year to three younger than Cap apparently. But yeah I agree she gives off the impression of being older than him due to her experience and I guess the fact that we're first introduced to pre-serum Cap who looks really young for his age.

ExplosiveLion Since: Mar, 2016 Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
#58238: Jun 2nd 2016 at 4:50:59 PM

Why is age an issue here? We could probably get Carol to just be a Captain (to reflect her superhero name, like Doctor Strange... even though that's his actual name and title xD) and that's it, no need for her to be a colonel. As somebody has said previously, we only need her to be a veteran (Afghanistan, probably), to have a bit of an attitude and that's it.

Wackd Since: May, 2009
#58239: Jun 2nd 2016 at 4:57:30 PM

It's not important plotwise, it's important because of representation. You can make anything make sense in a narrative but it'd be nice if older women got to be action heroes.

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#58240: Jun 2nd 2016 at 5:01:30 PM

Well we've got Tilda Swinton for that.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
ExplosiveLion Since: Mar, 2016 Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
#58242: Jun 2nd 2016 at 5:11:56 PM

Ok. Representation is a nice thing; but if the character doesn't need it nor is integral to it or the plot then to hell with it.

I wouldn't accept an asian Black Panther or a male Agent Carter (the former is an African character, and the latter has the whole discrimination thing going on), but a young Captain Marvel has no negative effect on the plot or the character.

I mean, it'd be nice to have a middle-aged woman to play the part, but casting a younger actress would make no difference.

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#58243: Jun 2nd 2016 at 5:43:46 PM

[up] You might disagree with me, but I've always felt that Carol being an experienced combatant is kind of vital to the character. I'm happy for things to change in adaptation, but not at the cost of diversity.

But, considering that captain marvel is a middle aged character, there's clearly been a decision made not to prioritise casting a woman who's demographic matches the character. This is robbing us of represention we should logically be getting.

And it's not hard to see that middle aged female protagonists are sorely needed in Hollywood. It stumps me that people think that age isn't an issue when it clearly is.

I don't know, I used to feel like MARVEL was ahead of the game on representation, but so much of it is getting lost in adaptation for no clear reason. Moon dragon and Phyla-vell are absent from the guardians of the galaxy, the maximoffs aren't ethnically romani, Janet Van Dyne isn't even in the ant man film, the ancient one is Caucasian and we've still not had an in universe conversation about Steve Rodgers and Matt Murdock being Irish.

I know a lot of it is trying to appeal to China, so the gay and Tibetan characters get cut, but that doesn't stop it from being disheartening.

edited 2nd Jun '16 5:46:20 PM by Whowho

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#58244: Jun 2nd 2016 at 6:15:00 PM

Can we move on from this topic, please? Sometimes I just wanna talk about more than any casting controversies, but then the controversies overtake the thread and I can't ask anything without it getting lost.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Falrinn Since: Dec, 2014
#58245: Jun 2nd 2016 at 6:15:09 PM

First I would like to say that I've typed up, and then deleted, multiple posts on the subject. This subject is far more complex then it has any right to be...

I think something to remember is that Captain Marvel is not going to be the first female title character in an MCU film (she's just the first one with a solo film). That honor goes to The Wasp, and Evangeline Lilly is going to be 39 when Ant-Man and The Wasp comes out.

Which means that if they were to cast someone as Carol Danvers who would be 40-ish when her solo movie comes out, the first two female title characters in the movie side of the MCU could easily be within 5 years of each other in age.

Now of course I'm not saying that Evangeline Lilly being around 40 when Captain Marvel comes out means we can't have a 40-ish Carol Danvers, but it does mean that the issue of representation isn't really as big of a deal in this precise context as it may appear on the surface.

There is of course the question of her being a seasoned combatant. But even with someone as young as Brie Larson we can be talking about close to a full decade in the military by the time Captain Marvel comes out.

edited 2nd Jun '16 6:16:06 PM by Falrinn

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#58246: Jun 2nd 2016 at 6:20:46 PM

Speaking of Ant-Man and The Wasp, if they bring back Janet, should she be played by Catherine Zeta Jones? I've heard that Michael Douglas wants her to play Janet.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#58247: Jun 2nd 2016 at 6:32:53 PM

Yeah I feel like this whole thing has been kinda overblown tbh.

[up]I'd be up for it. Mostly because I miss seeing her on the big screen. (Chicago is one of my favorite movies.)

edited 2nd Jun '16 6:33:24 PM by comicwriter

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#58248: Jun 2nd 2016 at 6:40:51 PM

Has she had any major roles since?

MapleSamurai Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#58249: Jun 2nd 2016 at 6:47:30 PM

Can we move on from this topic, please? Sometimes I just wanna talk about more than any casting controversies, but then the controversies overtake the thread and I can't ask anything without it getting lost.
Replace "casting controversy" with "pointless pissing contests over the quality of Batman v. Superman", and you know how I feel about the DC movie thread. tongue

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#58250: Jun 2nd 2016 at 6:56:44 PM

Ha, it's better than arguing over the merits of the Iron Man 3 twist. Dang I'm tired of that conversation. The "who was right in civil war" argument has burnt me out already too.


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