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Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
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I love that one, too, it's very effective.
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I don't think that is quite true. The file Natasha gave Steve in the end of TWS seemed to contain information on the whole Winter Soldier project which went back to 1945, they will have detailed the brainwashing, too. We also know that there is other canon evidence of HYDRA brainwashing people doing their bidding - Agents of SHIELD uses it in their storylines. Additionally, I doubt that every single HYDRA goon was killed, and people like the scientists/doctors who worked on him and even the STRIKE personnel could testify that there was brainwashing involved. Same goes for any psych evaluation if it was done by a real psychiatrist, anyway. Finally, since Tony calls Bucky Manchurian Candidate, he obviously knows what happened to him.
The point is probably more if what happened to him broke him so much that he's become the mask or simply snapped and can't stop killing now. Which is something even Steve wonders about after the UN bombing happens. He's only really convinced Bucky didn't do anything after Zemo triggers Bucky.
edited 1st Jun '16 8:08:05 AM by hollygoolightly
" Note there's no talk of even investigating why Barnes blew up the summit or if he's working for someone else."
Because, who else could be but some distant Hydra master? he is the winter soldier, Hydra assasin number one, why someone would try to frame him? or who else but Hydra could control him? the idea it could be someone else is absurd
"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"The idea that he's being controlled at all is never brought up in the film.
That's not the point. I'm sure people know he was brainwashed, but they have no evidence to indicate that he broke free or is trying to redeem himself. The only person who knows that is Cap. It's his word against all those people that just watched Bucky commit an act of terrorism.
They have no reason to believe that he's freed or isn't a bad guy anymore.
I forget, but does Steve try to tell anyone on Team Iron Man about Zemo's evil plot? Sam tells Tony when he's imprisoned, but what about before? Does Steve ever call up Tony and say, "The asshole pulling Bucky's strings is on his way to a secret Hydra base in Siberia. If you guys go thwart him, we'll talk." or some such?
Maybe not the right thing, but the guy had just forced his way into an elevator after Stark's bodyguard attempted to keep him out. Stark had made it clear multiple times that he wasn't interested in having this conversation and Killian just kept pushing. At this point, having Happy physically pick him up by his coat, walk him out to the lobby, and chuck him out of the building onto his face would actually have been a justifiable course of action.
The problem with the "we make our own demons" is that it's entirely irrelevant to the film. At no point was Killian ever trying to "annihilate everything Tony ever built". The film makes a poor attempt at justifying the statement by having Killian attribute the rooftop prank to having taught him to rule from behind the scenes - which is ridiculous - but A.I.M., Extremis, the Mandarin conspiracy, etc. was never about making Stark pay for his transgressions or anything of the sort.
Good riddance. If I never see another Writer Protest, "My favorite character beats the shit out of Iron Man to show my disapproval for this stupid storyline," scene it will be too soon. Every goddamned comic did this scene. Every comic. You name a superhero, he beat the shit out of Iron Man immediately after Civil War to show a writer's disdain for the arc. It got old fast.
Masters of Two Guys With No Powers Or Super Abilities Of Any Kind Plus Abomination, then? I'm just picturing Abomination punching it out with Thor while Zemo and Hammer shout encouragement from the sidelines.
Yeah, but in the hypothetical scenario where he blew up Vienna because he's still a brainwashed Hydra super-assassin capable of murdering an entire squad of emergency responders with his bare hands, that help might need to come in the form of a bullet.
Victim or not, it would be terribly irresponsible to just let him keep piling up corpses while investigating. Capturing him alive would be great but is entirely unfeasible given his record.
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.Yeah with killian is ether have a problematic villian but good acting or steriotipycal one(because let face it, White CEO have become the villian equivalent of white male lead) also as Tobias said, the conextion between Tony rehecting him and Killian being a villian is to weird
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Cap try but Tony dosent belive him, latter after the fight he saw new about Zemo and see Cap was right...only because Zemo want it
Killmonger has access to a super regeneration chamber that revives him at the expense of other people's lives. If they're willing to go down that route they could always get him to come back later that way, since most of the heroes have too much of a moral code to use it themselves. But since sacrificial mooks are a dime a dozen having something that can revive people that easily might just be too schlocky in principle for the moves.
But definitely is NOT (yet) in the movies. Theoretically of course they could give him some sort of sonar related Disney death and then have him come back later on in his 'living sound' form but I am not sure how well that would fit with the pseudo-realistic approach the MCU seems to favour.
"These 'no-nonsense' solutions of yours just don't hold water in a complex world of jet-powered apes and time travel."

The key word here being brainwashed. Even if that had been Barnes in Vienna there was a very likely chance someone else was pulling the strings. Note there's no talk of even investigating why Barnes blew up the summit or if he's working for someone else.