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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#58051: May 31st 2016 at 1:21:35 PM

1. Why do they foreshadow who the true bad guys are at the very beginning of the movie when Tony says that he just created "monsters"? I like the twist, but they should have really bothered a little bit more to hide the true culprit.

There are a lot of reasons that opening sequence should have just been excised entirely from the film. It contributes nothing of positive value and, if anything, only serves to muddy Killian's motives in the eyes of the fans.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#58052: May 31st 2016 at 1:21:45 PM

Yeah, the new resurgence of the Cap-Hate in the wake of Civil War is a little bit odd. Not surprising though, like most "perfect" characters there are a lot of people who like to tear down Steve.

[up] The oddest thing about the sequence is that I don't think that Tony necessarily did anything wrong in that sequence. I have said it before, but just because he is famous, there is no given right to accost him, especially not once he has left the party and is on "private" mode. And I doubt that Maya ever expected him to stick around after a drunken Silvestre night. It's not like Tony is making her any promises.

edited 31st May '16 1:24:01 PM by Swanpride

Ninety Absolutely no relation to NLK from Land of Quakes and Hills Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
Absolutely no relation to NLK
#58053: May 31st 2016 at 1:23:16 PM

The fact that so many individuals came out of the film have mutually contrasting views of who was right and wrong in the conflict and that it was too lopsided towards either character's views suggests to me it's not actually an objective flaw on the part of the movie.

I'm not saying that the fans unanimously believe Steve was in the right, I'm saying that in-universe the film presented him as such. I sure as hell am on Tony's side.

The problem with Captain America is that he somehow always ends up being right. Doesn't matter how contrived a plot gets or how many conflict/idiot balls get flung at other characters in the process, he is right because he's Captain America.

Exactly. Oh, my brainwashed best friend who has been used to assassinate and sabotage for decades is being accused of assassination and sabotage. Clearly he must have been framed! He wouldn't do that! Except for all those times!

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.
shatterstar Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I wanna know about these strangers like me
#58054: May 31st 2016 at 1:25:30 PM

So, reading the report that Rebecca Hall's character Maya Hansen was supposed to be the villain of IM 3 until someone asked to change it for toy sale (that is totally not Perlmutter guys *sarcasm*), I keep wondering would reception to the movie would be better if she was the one behind the Mandarin instead of Killian. What do you guys think? She actually was a compelling character in the film itself so I think it wouldn't be that much of a rewrite.

[down] Huh, now I can't get the image of Rebecca Hall channeling her inner Sylvia Tietjens for the Mandarin, especially given that she was the one behind the Extremist project in the comic.

edited 31st May '16 1:31:33 PM by shatterstar

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#58055: May 31st 2016 at 1:26:13 PM

[up][up]*sigh* Cap doesn't even think that Bucky is innocent when he goes to him, he just knows that there is a "shot on sight" order given and he wants to rescue his life and take him in without anyone getting hurt. Only after Bucky says that he didn't do it and Steve realizes that the whole thing was a ruse to flush him out, he thinks that Bucky is truly innocent of this particular crime.

[up] I actually always said that it would have been better if she had been the true boss after all.

edited 31st May '16 1:27:28 PM by Swanpride

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#58056: May 31st 2016 at 1:30:11 PM

It would've been a tad bit similar to The Dark Knight Rises if it was both Killian and Hansen as the villains (probably, I've never seen the film), but I would've accepted it, actually.

Though it then kinda runs into the problem of Hansen needing a motive. What motive would she have?

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
wehrmacht belongs to the hurricane from the garden of everything Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
belongs to the hurricane
#58057: May 31st 2016 at 1:32:06 PM

The oddest thing about the sequence is that I don't think that Tony necessarily did anything wrong in that sequence. I have said it before, but just because he is famous, there is no given right to accost him, especially not once he has left the party and is on "private" mode. And I doubt that Maya ever expected him to stick around after a drunken Silvestre night. It's not like Tony is making her any promises.

I agree with this, and I will also add that the way Killian is presented with those thick glasses and basically as a Straw Nerd is way too silly and over the top.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#58058: May 31st 2016 at 1:32:11 PM

[up][up] Why should she need one aside from wanting her formula to work? There is actually no reason to make it personal at all. I think the movie would be much better if Tony simply decided to take care of those terrorists who hurt Happy instead of doing another "demons from his past turn up".

edited 31st May '16 1:32:26 PM by Swanpride

Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#58059: May 31st 2016 at 1:32:58 PM

I didn't care for Mandarin (I just knew him as Iron Man's arch-enemy, nothing more) and I was FURIOUS at the reveal.

I was in the theatres and had to restrain myself from screaming out "ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?!"

Just curious: if you didn't care for the Mandarin himself, why did the twist piss you off?

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#58060: May 31st 2016 at 1:33:58 PM

[up][up]

Fair point, actually.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
wehrmacht belongs to the hurricane from the garden of everything Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
belongs to the hurricane
#58061: May 31st 2016 at 1:35:30 PM

[up][up]I imagine because the Mandarin as presented in the film beforehand, while potentially problematic, was being played by the charismatic Ben Kingsley and had SOME sort of grandeur and stage presence.

I'm not necessarily saying that the film should have played that straight, but with some changes, I would much prefer an awesome villain played by Ben Kingsley over the villain we got.

edited 31st May '16 1:35:53 PM by wehrmacht

Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#58062: May 31st 2016 at 1:40:38 PM

[up]Aye, that's pretty much the main reason the twist really is problematic. Honestly, I am a Mandarin fan, and even I would have been a bit more forgiving had there been a more memorable villain than Killian. It's not that the twist in itself was bad, it was a genuinely clever twist- it's how that twist was used.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#58063: May 31st 2016 at 1:45:29 PM

So, reading the report that Rebecca Hall's character Maya Hansen was supposed to be the villain of IM 3 until someone asked to change it for toy sale (that is totally not Perlmutter guys *sarcasm*), I keep wondering would reception to the movie would be better if she was the one behind the Mandarin instead of Killian. What do you guys think? She actually was a compelling character in the film itself so I think it wouldn't be that much of a rewrite.

She probably would have been an even better Mandarin than Killian. They could have kept the Social Darwinism stuff in, but masked her behind a second layer of deception that is the assumption Killian is the mastermind. Like, layered subterfuge.

  • Slattery's Mandarin
  • Killian's evil A.I.M. boss.
  • Maya Hansen, the true Mandarin.

Why should she need one aside from wanting her formula to work? There is actually no reason to make it personal at all. I think the movie would be much better if Tony simply decided to take care of those terrorists who hurt Happy instead of doing another "demons from his past turn up".

This. Maya's motives could be the same as Killian's: covering up her company's explosive failures with fake terrorist attacks. That's motive enough to get into conflict with Stark.

All the opening's "we create our own monsters" bit did was confuse audiences into thinking that Killian was doing this all to get revenge on Stark, but that wasn't the point with Killian and it shouldn't be the point with Villainous Maya.

edited 31st May '16 1:46:29 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
jakobitis Doctor of Doctorates from Somewhere, somewhen Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Doctor of Doctorates
#58064: May 31st 2016 at 1:58:22 PM

Yeah, I liked the twist in and of itself, but the big reveal it set up was just terrible. So the Mandarin wasn't in fact the Big Bad? Then who on earth could it be? Maybe, just maybe it's that Shadow-Tony just like it was in the other two films, only even blander and duller.

Hansen could have been genuinely interesting as a villain if they could have convincingly had her pulling Killian's strings. He THINKS he's the big bad but he's just another puppet. Easier said than done perhaps.

"These 'no-nonsense' solutions of yours just don't hold water in a complex world of jet-powered apes and time travel."
Ninety Absolutely no relation to NLK from Land of Quakes and Hills Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
Absolutely no relation to NLK
#58065: May 31st 2016 at 1:59:39 PM

Had to have everything be Tony's fault yet again somehow, I suppose.

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#58067: May 31st 2016 at 2:15:00 PM

Anyway, following on the Joblo scoops, interesting that both Ragnarok and GOTG 2 both feature women as the main villains, almost like an apology for the lack of Hansen.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#58068: May 31st 2016 at 2:26:39 PM

It probably is.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#58069: May 31st 2016 at 2:48:59 PM

They're getting the lady from The Man from UNCLE as the villain for GOTG Vol 2? Awesome! I loved her in that movie.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#58070: May 31st 2016 at 2:53:35 PM

I can't get on that site - what's the news?

In regards to Civil War, I think that Tony's right about the Accords, but Steve's right about Bucky. Also, Ross isn't someone I trust to run something like this.

Oh God! Natural light!
Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#58071: May 31st 2016 at 2:59:09 PM

That might be a stupid suggestion, but what if they had made Maya Hansen the MCU version of Madame Masque?

flameboy21th The would-be novelist from California Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
The would-be novelist
#58072: May 31st 2016 at 3:07:46 PM

Steve would be more agreeable if Tony and Ross didn't call his teammates weapons.

Non Indicative Username
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#58073: May 31st 2016 at 3:11:31 PM

I hope we get Rumiko Fujikawa in the movies somehow. Preferably not as a love interest though. Audiences are tired of that and the Pepperony shippers would revolt.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#58074: May 31st 2016 at 3:31:18 PM

The oddest thing about the sequence is that I don't think that Tony necessarily did anything wrong in that sequence. I have said it before, but just because he is famous, there is no given right to accost him, especially not once he has left the party and is on "private" mode. And I doubt that Maya ever expected him to stick around after a drunken Silvestre night. It's not like Tony is making her any promises.

Right, because displaying false interest in someone and telling them you'll meet them on the roof in a few minutes, just to stand them up as a prank for being weird and unintentionally annoying is totally the right thing to do.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Whowho Since: May, 2012
#58075: May 31st 2016 at 3:34:28 PM

Okay, ranking the MCU films into four tiers rather than individually, because I change my mind too much.

GLORIOUS TEIR

  • Iron Man 3
  • Civil War
  • Winter Soldier
  • Guardians of the Galaxy

GRAND TEIR

  • Ant-Man
  • Iron Man
  • Thor

GREAT TEIR

  • Avengers Assemble
  • Age of Ultron
  • Iron Man 2
  • The First Avenger

GOOD TEIR

  • Incredible Hulk
  • Dark World


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