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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

dRoy Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar from Most likely from my study Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just high on the world
Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar
#58026: May 31st 2016 at 11:42:38 AM

I don't particularly like Guardians of the Galaxy. It's just not my kind of movie. But I do acknowledge that regardless of what I think about it, it is a pretty good movie itself and has some amazing scenes.

Especially the climactic distraction move. I mean...holy shit, I know I said this before, but I consider it one of the Top 10 moments in the entire MCU.

The Number 1 will always be the Avengers Assemble scene in The Avengers. For me, that is.

edited 31st May '16 11:42:48 AM by dRoy

Continuously reading, studying, and (hopefully) growing.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#58027: May 31st 2016 at 11:46:03 AM

4. Iron Man 3 (9.2/10) I don't mind the twist, as I never cared for the Mandarin, and Tony Stark fighting outside the Iron Man suit shows how much he's grown as a fighter and person, as well as the final fight being amazing.

I was quite pleased by the twist and I DID care for the Mandarin!

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
dRoy Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar from Most likely from my study Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just high on the world
Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar
#58028: May 31st 2016 at 11:49:11 AM

I didn't care for Mandarin (I just knew him as Iron Man's arch-enemy, nothing more) and I was    FURIOUS    at the reveal.

I was in the theatres and had to restrain myself from screaming out "ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?!"

Continuously reading, studying, and (hopefully) growing.
MousaThe14 Writer, Artist, Ignored from Northern Virginia Since: Jan, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Writer, Artist, Ignored
#58029: May 31st 2016 at 11:54:03 AM

I loved the twist but I'm also one of those weirdos that liked IM 3.

Also I was neutral on Mandarin since I had limited experience with him before IM 3.

The Blog The Art
dRoy Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar from Most likely from my study Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just high on the world
Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar
#58030: May 31st 2016 at 11:59:01 AM

Driving with the Top Down from Iron Man 1.

It's one of those soundtracks that goes perfectly with any video that involves flying/gliding/falling.

edited 31st May '16 11:59:10 AM by dRoy

Continuously reading, studying, and (hopefully) growing.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#58031: May 31st 2016 at 11:59:43 AM

[up][up]Same except I knew Mandarin from olde Avengers comics

This thread sure is cyclical

edited 31st May '16 12:00:17 PM by Bocaj

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#58032: May 31st 2016 at 12:00:50 PM

I thought Killian being the true Mandarin was an interesting idea (Mandarins are supposed to be background advisors, so there's a sort of symbolic appropriateness to it).

I just thought they went way too far with how they used Trevor. It's a massive waste of Ben Kingsley.

Wanting to avoid the Yellow Peril idea of the Mandarin is one thing, but what they did...

There had to be a better way to do it. There had to be.

One Strip! One Strip!
DeathsApprentice The Ultimate Lifeform from The Ark Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
The Ultimate Lifeform
#58033: May 31st 2016 at 12:01:53 PM

I rather liked the twist, though I didn't care for the actual villain.

When we're done, there won't be anything left.
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#58034: May 31st 2016 at 12:04:51 PM

[up][up]you know, for all the babbling about iron man 3, it did one thing right: it sell me tony stark as someone else beyond "the rich guy in the suit" and give him somewhat of a happy ending

In fact, looking Civil war after Iron man 3 is just depressing

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#58035: May 31st 2016 at 12:11:30 PM

I thought Killian being the true Mandarin was an interesting idea (Mandarins are supposed to be background advisors, so there's a sort of symbolic appropriateness to it).

Which is exactly how the character is supposed to be. He's The Man Behind the Man, lurking behind a network of dummy corporations, fall guys, and other obvious public faces.

He's also supposed to be a Social Darwinist who's all about purging the weak and letting the powerful rise to the top. To that end, Extremis was the perfect power to associate him with because it's basically a physical manifestation of his philosophy. Those who can regulate thrive and those who can't die explosively.

Basically, the only things wrong with the character are that he doesn't have the cool, flashy rings that a lot of people only remember him for and he isn't Asian. Which, I mean, the latter IS a huge misstep given the other changes they made with him. No argument on that. Killian is basically yesterday's Tilda Swinton.

But he's a vast improvement over Ben Kingsley's pre-Reveal character, who was certainly a chilling villain who plays on all of America's xenophobic fears regarding the Eastern Hemisphere, but does not even vaguely resemble the Mandarin. From the beginning, I was expecting a stupid, obnoxious, dumbed-down version of the character retooled to replace Yellow Peril with Muslim Peril, and what I got was so much better.

edited 31st May '16 12:13:45 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
DeathsApprentice The Ultimate Lifeform from The Ark Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
The Ultimate Lifeform
#58037: May 31st 2016 at 12:18:56 PM

[up][up] I thought Ben Kingsley was half-Indian? So he's not the same kind of Asian as the Mandarin in the comics, but he's still Asian?

EDIT: Ohhh, you were talking about Killian. Haha, my bad. I dunno, I found his backstory rather uninspired. But how he executed his plan was pretty inspired, I think. I'm not that familiar with the Mandarin, so I can't judge how much like the comics Mandarin Killian is.

edited 31st May '16 12:23:10 PM by DeathsApprentice

When we're done, there won't be anything left.
Ninety Absolutely no relation to NLK from Land of Quakes and Hills Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
Absolutely no relation to NLK
#58038: May 31st 2016 at 12:19:18 PM

As well as every single character being awesome and the conflict being EXTREMELY two-sided.

That is an opinion I've seen a fair bit about Civil War, but I strongly disagree. Steve was constantly presented as having the moral high ground, as per tradition, while Tony was the only one conflicted or doubtful. Also as per tradition.

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.
wehrmacht belongs to the hurricane from the garden of everything Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
belongs to the hurricane
#58039: May 31st 2016 at 12:25:22 PM

I rather liked the twist, though I didn't care for the actual villain.

I mostly feel the same.

Basically, the idea of the Mandarin being a projection of the xenophobia and othering of american society was a pretty neat concept. I wouldn't say I particularly loved the twist but it is probably one of IM 3's stronger points.

The only problem is that Killian himself is a cartoonish, petulant (in a bad way), boring villain with silly motivations and the charisma of a clogged toilet. Guy Pearce is a fine actor but this was not really his best showing. My dislike of him has pretty much nothing to do with me being a fan of the original Mandarin, who I didn't know anything about prior to watching this movie.

Not only that, but the film telegraphed him being a villain in such an obvious fashion that it's honestly not very difficult to surmise that he's the main villain regardless of whatever is happening with the Mandarin, who only really shows up every once in a while. He gets most of the focus, he has a connection to Tony (however tenuous) and Pepper, we see him doing stuff a lot, etc. As someone who wasn't familiar with Mandarin and who wasn't really paying attention to the marketing it was kind of predictable.

When Trevor Slattery is unmasked there's no real suspense or question as to who the main villain is, which sort of made the reveal underwhelming for me, as good an idea as it was.

edited 31st May '16 12:29:18 PM by wehrmacht

MapleSamurai Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#58040: May 31st 2016 at 12:33:21 PM

For me, the biggest problem with the Mandarin twist basically boils down to how the villain we got was nowhere near as interesting as the villain we thought we were getting.

I get Marvel wanted to subvert the "scary foreigner" aspects of the Mandarin, but we had to settle for Syndrome Lite for the sake of said twist.

MousaThe14 Writer, Artist, Ignored from Northern Virginia Since: Jan, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Writer, Artist, Ignored
#58041: May 31st 2016 at 12:36:11 PM

@Ninety, we have very different views because I came out of Civil War seeing cap was presented as a sympathetic bad guy.

The Blog The Art
dRoy Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar from Most likely from my study Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just high on the world
Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar
#58042: May 31st 2016 at 12:44:52 PM

The only problem is that Killian himself is a cartoonish, petulant (in a bad way), boring villain with silly motivations and the charisma of a clogged toilet.

Yup, pretty much.

It's kind of like how I felt about the reveal of final villain in The Dark Knight Rises.

Continuously reading, studying, and (hopefully) growing.
Ninety Absolutely no relation to NLK from Land of Quakes and Hills Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
Absolutely no relation to NLK
#58043: May 31st 2016 at 12:45:02 PM

Perhaps I have a tendency to take things at face value, because to me the entire presentation and framing of all the scenes of conflict clearly showed that Tony was supposed to be in the wrong (and knowing it on some level, feeling guilty about it) while Steve was the self-righteous one.

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#58044: May 31st 2016 at 12:56:46 PM

The fact that so many individuals came out of the film have mutually contrasting views of who was right and wrong in the conflict and that it was too lopsided towards either character's views suggests to me it's not actually an objective flaw on the part of the movie.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#58045: May 31st 2016 at 12:59:19 PM

For me, the biggest problem with the Mandarin twist basically boils down to how the villain we got was nowhere near as interesting as the villain we thought we were getting.

I can respect much of the criticisms, but this is the part I really disagree with. I just can't see how "Generic Terrorist Mastermind embodying all of America's fears about the Middle East" is an intriguing character or an appropriate adaptation of the Mandarin. The villain we thought we were getting was Osama bin Laden with bling.

edited 31st May '16 12:59:29 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
jakobitis Doctor of Doctorates from Somewhere, somewhen Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Doctor of Doctorates
#58046: May 31st 2016 at 12:59:20 PM

The problem with Captain America is that he somehow always ends up being right. Doesn't matter how contrived a plot gets or how many conflict/idiot balls get flung at other characters in the process, he is right because he's Captain America.

"These 'no-nonsense' solutions of yours just don't hold water in a complex world of jet-powered apes and time travel."
MousaThe14 Writer, Artist, Ignored from Northern Virginia Since: Jan, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Writer, Artist, Ignored
#58047: May 31st 2016 at 1:02:09 PM

I was seeing a dude selfishly trampling over every rule and law of several nations based on hunches and a personal connection. He was only right in preventing their shoot to kill orders that weren't even Tony's fault, but Ross's and Tony spent most of the movie getting in Ross's way so he could do a better job settling things peaceably.

Also, it was usually Cap's plan to punch his way through everything while Tony was extending the majority of the olive branches.

While Zemo did do an excellent job mucking up absolutely everything, the reasonable solution would be turning in Bucky presenting himnas a brainwashed prisoner of war so he could get all the help he needs and making sure Tony and the others had as much information as possible.

Instead of, say, dragging two loving fathers into something that would mark them as criminals, based on little intel and a lot of charisma and reputation alone.

Like, Cap is right about some things but not about the Accords for one thing. And how he approached the whole situation for another.

edited 31st May '16 1:04:20 PM by MousaThe14

The Blog The Art
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#58048: May 31st 2016 at 1:08:23 PM

"The only problem is that Killian himself is a cartoonish, petulant (in a bad way), boring villain with silly motivations and the charisma of a clogged toilet"

Also, killian is yet another "evil guy in a suit" that Marvel have been abusing the hell out, in fact im thankfull Bv S didnt make luthor that way by how sick I get of the "evil CEO"

"The problem with Captain America is that he somehow always ends up being right. Doesn't matter how contrived a plot gets or how many conflict/idiot balls get flung at other characters in the process, he is right because he's Captain America. "

pretty much

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#58049: May 31st 2016 at 1:11:18 PM

I have three problems with the movie: 1. Why do they foreshadow who the true bad guys are at the very beginning of the movie when Tony says that he just created "monsters"? I like the twist, but they should have really bothered a little bit more to hide the true culprits. 2. The actual villains as well as their motives are really boring, so it doesn't feel like there are any true stakes in the end fight. 3. After spending all the movie to set up a lot of stuff, they just wrap everything up in two sentences, and in addition remove one of the biggest consequences in the MCU forever.

Concerning Got G: I think The Winter Soldier is the better movie, but Got G is just the most fun movie. I can watch it again and again and still smile about it...and be still invested in all the emotional moments in it. It is also better staged that most of the MCU movies. The scene in which Peter, Gamora and Rocket talk about their flight plan, and in the background you can see Groot in action, it's just genius. And that is just the moment at the top of my mind. James Gun has a really good eye for using movement in any given scene to set the mood.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#58050: May 31st 2016 at 1:14:23 PM

The fact that so many individuals came out of the film have mutually contrasting views of who was right and wrong in the conflict and that it was too lopsided towards either character's views suggests to me it's not actually an objective flaw on the part of the movie.

This. I think it's weird to walk away from the film disliking that you can say Cap was right. You don't see the Pro-Cap side disliking that Tony could be called right by other fans.


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