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Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
I was quite pleased by the twist and I DID care for the Mandarin!
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.![]()
Same except I knew Mandarin from olde Avengers comics
This thread sure is cyclical
edited 31st May '16 12:00:17 PM by Bocaj
Forever liveblogging the AvengersI thought Killian being the true Mandarin was an interesting idea (Mandarins are supposed to be background advisors, so there's a sort of symbolic appropriateness to it).
I just thought they went way too far with how they used Trevor. It's a massive waste of Ben Kingsley.
Wanting to avoid the Yellow Peril idea of the Mandarin is one thing, but what they did...
There had to be a better way to do it. There had to be.
One Strip! One Strip!![]()
you know, for all the babbling about iron man 3, it did one thing right: it sell me tony stark as someone else beyond "the rich guy in the suit" and give him somewhat of a happy ending
In fact, looking Civil war after Iron man 3 is just depressing
"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"Which is exactly how the character is supposed to be. He's The Man Behind the Man, lurking behind a network of dummy corporations, fall guys, and other obvious public faces.
He's also supposed to be a Social Darwinist who's all about purging the weak and letting the powerful rise to the top. To that end, Extremis was the perfect power to associate him with because it's basically a physical manifestation of his philosophy. Those who can regulate thrive and those who can't die explosively.
Basically, the only things wrong with the character are that he doesn't have the cool, flashy rings that a lot of people only remember him for and he isn't Asian. Which, I mean, the latter IS a huge misstep given the other changes they made with him. No argument on that. Killian is basically yesterday's Tilda Swinton.
But he's a vast improvement over Ben Kingsley's pre-Reveal character, who was certainly a chilling villain who plays on all of America's xenophobic fears regarding the Eastern Hemisphere, but does not even vaguely resemble the Mandarin. From the beginning, I was expecting a stupid, obnoxious, dumbed-down version of the character retooled to replace Yellow Peril with Muslim Peril, and what I got was so much better.
edited 31st May '16 12:13:45 PM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.Y'know, I don't think I've done any "list MCU movies in order" stuff, at least for a while. Always subject to change:
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I thought Ben Kingsley was half-Indian? So he's not the same kind of Asian as the Mandarin in the comics, but he's still Asian?
EDIT: Ohhh, you were talking about Killian. Haha, my bad. I dunno, I found his backstory rather uninspired. But how he executed his plan was pretty inspired, I think. I'm not that familiar with the Mandarin, so I can't judge how much like the comics Mandarin Killian is.
edited 31st May '16 12:23:10 PM by DeathsApprentice
When we're done, there won't be anything left.As well as every single character being awesome and the conflict being EXTREMELY two-sided.
That is an opinion I've seen a fair bit about Civil War, but I strongly disagree. Steve was constantly presented as having the moral high ground, as per tradition, while Tony was the only one conflicted or doubtful. Also as per tradition.
I mostly feel the same.
Basically, the idea of the Mandarin being a projection of the xenophobia and othering of american society was a pretty neat concept. I wouldn't say I particularly loved the twist but it is probably one of IM 3's stronger points.
The only problem is that Killian himself is a cartoonish, petulant (in a bad way), boring villain with silly motivations and the charisma of a clogged toilet. Guy Pearce is a fine actor but this was not really his best showing. My dislike of him has pretty much nothing to do with me being a fan of the original Mandarin, who I didn't know anything about prior to watching this movie.
Not only that, but the film telegraphed him being a villain in such an obvious fashion that it's honestly not very difficult to surmise that he's the main villain regardless of whatever is happening with the Mandarin, who only really shows up every once in a while. He gets most of the focus, he has a connection to Tony (however tenuous) and Pepper, we see him doing stuff a lot, etc. As someone who wasn't familiar with Mandarin and who wasn't really paying attention to the marketing it was kind of predictable.
When Trevor Slattery is unmasked there's no real suspense or question as to who the main villain is, which sort of made the reveal underwhelming for me, as good an idea as it was.
edited 31st May '16 12:29:18 PM by wehrmacht
For me, the biggest problem with the Mandarin twist basically boils down to how the villain we got was nowhere near as interesting as the villain we thought we were getting.
I get Marvel wanted to subvert the "scary foreigner" aspects of the Mandarin, but we had to settle for Syndrome Lite for the sake of said twist.
Yup, pretty much.
It's kind of like how I felt about the reveal of final villain in The Dark Knight Rises.
Continuously reading, studying, and (hopefully) growing.Perhaps I have a tendency to take things at face value, because to me the entire presentation and framing of all the scenes of conflict clearly showed that Tony was supposed to be in the wrong (and knowing it on some level, feeling guilty about it) while Steve was the self-righteous one.
I can respect much of the criticisms, but this is the part I really disagree with. I just can't see how "Generic Terrorist Mastermind embodying all of America's fears about the Middle East" is an intriguing character or an appropriate adaptation of the Mandarin. The villain we thought we were getting was Osama bin Laden with bling.
edited 31st May '16 12:59:29 PM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.The problem with Captain America is that he somehow always ends up being right. Doesn't matter how contrived a plot gets or how many conflict/idiot balls get flung at other characters in the process, he is right because he's Captain America.
"These 'no-nonsense' solutions of yours just don't hold water in a complex world of jet-powered apes and time travel."I was seeing a dude selfishly trampling over every rule and law of several nations based on hunches and a personal connection. He was only right in preventing their shoot to kill orders that weren't even Tony's fault, but Ross's and Tony spent most of the movie getting in Ross's way so he could do a better job settling things peaceably.
Also, it was usually Cap's plan to punch his way through everything while Tony was extending the majority of the olive branches.
While Zemo did do an excellent job mucking up absolutely everything, the reasonable solution would be turning in Bucky presenting himnas a brainwashed prisoner of war so he could get all the help he needs and making sure Tony and the others had as much information as possible.
Instead of, say, dragging two loving fathers into something that would mark them as criminals, based on little intel and a lot of charisma and reputation alone.
Like, Cap is right about some things but not about the Accords for one thing. And how he approached the whole situation for another.
edited 31st May '16 1:04:20 PM by MousaThe14
The Blog The Art"The only problem is that Killian himself is a cartoonish, petulant (in a bad way), boring villain with silly motivations and the charisma of a clogged toilet"
Also, killian is yet another "evil guy in a suit" that Marvel have been abusing the hell out, in fact im thankfull Bv S didnt make luthor that way by how sick I get of the "evil CEO"
"The problem with Captain America is that he somehow always ends up being right. Doesn't matter how contrived a plot gets or how many conflict/idiot balls get flung at other characters in the process, he is right because he's Captain America. "
pretty much
"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"I have three problems with the movie: 1. Why do they foreshadow who the true bad guys are at the very beginning of the movie when Tony says that he just created "monsters"? I like the twist, but they should have really bothered a little bit more to hide the true culprits. 2. The actual villains as well as their motives are really boring, so it doesn't feel like there are any true stakes in the end fight. 3. After spending all the movie to set up a lot of stuff, they just wrap everything up in two sentences, and in addition remove one of the biggest consequences in the MCU forever.
Concerning Got G: I think The Winter Soldier is the better movie, but Got G is just the most fun movie. I can watch it again and again and still smile about it...and be still invested in all the emotional moments in it. It is also better staged that most of the MCU movies. The scene in which Peter, Gamora and Rocket talk about their flight plan, and in the background you can see Groot in action, it's just genius. And that is just the moment at the top of my mind. James Gun has a really good eye for using movement in any given scene to set the mood.
This. I think it's weird to walk away from the film disliking that you can say Cap was right. You don't see the Pro-Cap side disliking that Tony could be called right by other fans.

I don't particularly like Guardians of the Galaxy. It's just not my kind of movie. But I do acknowledge that regardless of what I think about it, it is a pretty good movie itself and has some amazing scenes.
Especially the climactic distraction move. I mean...holy shit, I know I said this before, but I consider it one of the Top 10 moments in the entire MCU.
The Number 1 will always be the Avengers Assemble scene in The Avengers. For me, that is.
edited 31st May '16 11:42:48 AM by dRoy
Continuously reading, studying, and (hopefully) growing.