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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

hollygoolightly Since: Apr, 2012 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#57776: May 25th 2016 at 8:47:56 AM

[up]Sorry, I got your question a bit wrong - my description was of Jessica Jones. I know nothing about Jessica Drew.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#57777: May 25th 2016 at 8:49:00 AM

It's OK. I think Jessica Jones was made as an expy of Jessica Drew anyways, if I recall correctly.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
MousaThe14 Writer, Artist, Ignored from Northern Virginia Since: Jan, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Writer, Artist, Ignored
#57778: May 25th 2016 at 8:52:15 AM

Yes she was. If I recall Drew's history is complicated. If I remember correctly from the New Avengers comics I've read she was born and raised into a HYDRA family, was experimented on, was an agent for a while, escaped it, her powers are... iffy.

Like She can fly sort of. It comes and goes. In fact I think she was seeing HYDRA again for doses of the ability to fly. But under Nick Fury's orders so the info she was feeding HYDRA was just info Nick Fury wanted them to know.

edited 25th May '16 8:53:19 AM by MousaThe14

The Blog The Art
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#57779: May 25th 2016 at 8:52:54 AM

Anything other than flight?

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
MousaThe14 Writer, Artist, Ignored from Northern Virginia Since: Jan, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Writer, Artist, Ignored
#57780: May 25th 2016 at 8:54:06 AM

Her definite powers are she has, uh, I guess "venom stringers"? They're basically generic little zap blasts like the Wasp or Bumblebee have. Also pheromones. She can sort of, like, pacify or attract dudes with some sort of pheromones.

The Blog The Art
Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#57781: May 25th 2016 at 8:54:28 AM

Flight, super-strength, and green energy blasts. That's kinda her forte.

EDIT: Forgot about the pheromones, right.

edited 25th May '16 8:54:52 AM by Watchtower

DeathsApprentice The Ultimate Lifeform from The Ark Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
The Ultimate Lifeform
#57782: May 25th 2016 at 8:55:07 AM

She can do venom blasts, which basically allows her to shock her enemies or something like that. She also has heightened reflexes, I think.

[nja]'d

edited 25th May '16 8:55:51 AM by DeathsApprentice

When we're done, there won't be anything left.
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#57783: May 25th 2016 at 8:55:19 AM

Sounds pretty far removed from Spider-Man. Is there an in-universe reason for why she's called Spider-Woman?

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
MousaThe14 Writer, Artist, Ignored from Northern Virginia Since: Jan, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Writer, Artist, Ignored
#57784: May 25th 2016 at 8:56:24 AM

I dunno, have you seen her costume?

Other than that, I have no clue, I'd have to check Wikipedia or the Marvel wiki or something.. Which you could do too.

The Blog The Art
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#57785: May 25th 2016 at 8:56:55 AM

I've seen her original costume. Personally I prefer the new one, because god damn does the old one look like shit.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#57786: May 25th 2016 at 8:58:04 AM

So what exactly is Spider-Woman's whole deal in the comics that'd make Whedon a good fit for the character? I barely know anything about the character other than they made her to get the copyright for the name or something.
I was speaking more towards the modern Jessica Drew, who is an ex-spy and now a private detective, but since you know nothing about her, I'll go through her entire history (YES I AM A COMICS NERD THANK YOU):

Long ago, near the mountains of Wundagore, lived Jonathan and Miriam Drew and their young daughter Jessica. Due to unfortunate uranium exposure, Jessica got sick and in order to save her, they injected her with an experimental serum of irradiated spiders' blood. Or perhaps she was hit while in the womb by a laser containing traces of spider DNA. Or perhaps she was actually an evolved spider. Who knows! In any case, she was raised by the High Evolutionary in Mount Wundagore before running away and falling into with Hydra (yes, Hydra). And then she ran away from Hydra after some botched missions and tried to be a superhero.

This is pretty hard for her, because one of her powers is instilling fear and paranoia in people due to pheromones. And she also bioelectric shocks, even though both of those have nothing to do with spiders. She can also glide, which is kind of like flying, but worse, I guess? In any case, she tries to be a superhero, is pretty bad at it, but gets better. And then she becomes a bounty hunter and then she becomes a PI and then she uses astral projection in order to fight Morgan le Fey in the 6th century, at which point her actual body dies and that's how her book ends. But! later on, she is brought back in the pages of Avengers and that "instills fear and paranoia" thing is pretty much forgotten about.

So from there, she sort of disappears into the background until she reappears in the pages of Alias, where she gets Jessica Jones help in tracking down Mattie Franklin, the third Spider-Woman. And then she goes and becomes a member of the New Avengers, but then it turns out she's a mole for Hydra, but not really because she actually works for Nick Fury as a triple agent, but then not really, because she was actually the Skrull Queen Veranka.

After Secret Invasion, the real Spider-Woman returns and becomes an agent of S.W.O.R.D. and then of the Avengers again and then, eventually, decides to quit the Avengers and become a PI again with a cool new costume and two sidekicks (reformed supervillain Porcupine and reporter Ben Urich). And currently, she just gave birth to a son, so there's that, too.

edited 25th May '16 9:00:06 AM by alliterator

MousaThe14 Writer, Artist, Ignored from Northern Virginia Since: Jan, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#57788: May 25th 2016 at 8:59:02 AM

Her origins are still somewhat spider-based, though again with no relation at all to Spider Man.

It's muddy as shit. The original concept was that she was quite literally a goddamn spider-turned-human, but that fell through real fast.

hollygoolightly Since: Apr, 2012 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#57789: May 25th 2016 at 9:02:58 AM

Wow, that's some fun backstory.

(Everybody gets impersonated by the skrull at least once, don't they? It just seems to be a thing, like "dying" and coming back, or actually being a clone, or an alternate universe version of yourself.)

MousaThe14 Writer, Artist, Ignored from Northern Virginia Since: Jan, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Writer, Artist, Ignored
#57790: May 25th 2016 at 9:03:25 AM

Yeah, our article on her even says that her origins are just as muddy as Hawkman's who is famous for it. Though ti seems mainstream 616 has stuck with "injected with spider serum to save her from radiation poisoning"

The Blog The Art
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#57791: May 25th 2016 at 9:04:51 AM

Well that's appropriately confusing.

So what kind of story involving her would work as a film? I doubt they'd go the PI angle if it means they'd end up copying from Jessica Jones.

Hell, maybe they could put her in a Black Widow movie? They seem to have slightly similar backgrounds.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#57792: May 25th 2016 at 9:05:58 AM

[up][up][up] As noted, Jessica Drew was noteworthy for being replaced by the Skrull Queen. And Secret Invasion was the main event to really capitalize on "he's not dead, it was a Skrull spy", mainly in the case of Mockingbird.

edited 25th May '16 9:06:09 AM by Watchtower

FictionWriterKing Since: Apr, 2016
#57793: May 25th 2016 at 9:13:46 AM

Lionheart that's how the majority of supervillians are

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#57794: May 25th 2016 at 9:29:32 AM

Whedon heading a Spider-Woman movie in general maybe, but if he's trying to take it in the direction of Jessica Jones I don't think he has the tact to pull it off. This is the guy who thought it would be a good idea to have Inara gangraped as an aesop against Slut-Shaming. He can't do subtle (or tasteful apparently).

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#57795: May 25th 2016 at 9:32:07 AM

So if not Whedon, who'd be a good match for the character?

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#57796: May 25th 2016 at 9:34:20 AM

To be fair, Jessica Jones is hardly subtle itself. It takes its rape allegory and smashes you so mercilessly with it that it's villain might as well have been Hammerhead.

Note: while I've been very critical of Jessica Jones, Some Anvils Need to Be Dropped, and how it handles that is one of the show's big strengths.

edited 25th May '16 9:34:59 AM by Watchtower

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#57797: May 25th 2016 at 9:34:28 AM

This is the guy who thought it would be a good idea to have Inara gangraped as an aesop against Slut-Shaming.
Huh? No, that wasn't an aesop for that not-even-planned story, it was just an idea he had that was never implemented.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#57798: May 25th 2016 at 9:44:28 AM

[up] But which was already set up in the pilot episode...yeah, I just watched the entire run of firefly...the show is actually quite good if you not happen to watch the worst episodes out of it without any context, but man are the romance arcs badly written. Urgh! Whedon does a lot of things really well, but his romance arcs are juvenile, which is okay for something like Buffy, but really doesn't work when he writes for supposedly grown up characters. Just watching Firefly made me understand how Natasha/Hulk could happen. I hope he NEVER tries his hand on another romance ever again.

Either way, Jessica Jones actually managed to discuss the influence of rape without showing anything titillating related to said rape. There is a reason the show got the Peabody award, because this kind of perspective, which is really relentless in calling out all the BS connected to rape, is so rare. And I don't think that Whedon could have done it. And that is not a slam towards him, I have a hard time to come up with any director or show runner who would have gone there.

DeathsApprentice The Ultimate Lifeform from The Ark Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
The Ultimate Lifeform
#57799: May 25th 2016 at 9:57:07 AM

I really would want Jessica Drew to be introduced in Carol's movie, since they're really close in the comics. (Close enough that In-Universe, it was a pretty popular rumor that Carol was her baby's father. tongue)

When we're done, there won't be anything left.
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#57800: May 25th 2016 at 10:06:26 AM

I actually kinda wanna see Kamela Khan in the Captain Marvel movie, to be honest.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?

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