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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#57751: May 25th 2016 at 6:20:47 AM

China won't allow it. Otherwise I'd say it was highly likely.

yellowturtle from Nowhere Important Since: Feb, 2015 Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
#57752: May 25th 2016 at 6:41:16 AM

I feel like it would seem like it 'just happened suddenly'.

I mean, I love their bro-mance, but I don't think a relationship would make sense.

Crow: There's a plot?
DeathsApprentice The Ultimate Lifeform from The Ark Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
The Ultimate Lifeform
#57753: May 25th 2016 at 6:44:27 AM

I'm more partial to SamSteve myself. I mean, the scene where they met in CA:TWS was like a Meet Cute out of a rom com. But yeah, doubt it's going to happen.

When we're done, there won't be anything left.
hollygoolightly Since: Apr, 2012 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#57754: May 25th 2016 at 6:49:05 AM

I kind of prefer that it's not a romance (referring to Bucky and Steve in this case), but then again, I'm generally not interested in romances. And the importance of his different friendships is something I really like about the Captain America movies. I mean, yes, if there can't be same sex romantic relationships especially for male characters, it's a big problem, but when every emotionally deep relationship between men has to be a romantic relationship, it's also a problem.

edited 25th May '16 6:51:44 AM by hollygoolightly

yellowturtle from Nowhere Important Since: Feb, 2015 Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
#57755: May 25th 2016 at 6:55:42 AM

Also, Marvel doesn't have the best track record with romances. If it couldn't be the best, then I'm not really on board.

Crow: There's a plot?
DeathsApprentice The Ultimate Lifeform from The Ark Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
The Ultimate Lifeform
#57756: May 25th 2016 at 6:56:14 AM

[up][up]I feel that way, too, honestly. I always really appreciated that Steve went through such lengths to save his best friend. It's not something you typically see, since such lengths are normally reserved for the love interest. I love how important Steve's friendships are to him.

edited 25th May '16 6:56:43 AM by DeathsApprentice

When we're done, there won't be anything left.
MousaThe14 Writer, Artist, Ignored from Northern Virginia Since: Jan, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Writer, Artist, Ignored
#57757: May 25th 2016 at 7:25:11 AM

Some might even be seeing it as a romance because they don't know any better and are only used to people going through such lengths for a love interest.

I'm always of two minds about these sorts of things because of my general disinterest in romance in media I enjoy. Also the MCU does romance poorly overall anyway, so why bother?

But also see the importance of seeing more kinds of relationships on-screen. And from certain lights it's easy for me to see why people would perceive Steve and Bucky's relationship as romantic. Like, really easy. Like, it isn't hard at all. And with the lack of positive representation of gay relationships in popular media in general it's not an unreasonable demand. After all, it's never outright stated they're straight. Besides the really awkward and forced kiss with Steve and Sharon, I mean dear god that was the most Have I Mentioned I Am Heterosexual Today? thing the MCU has done.

edited 25th May '16 7:26:23 AM by MousaThe14

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hollygoolightly Since: Apr, 2012 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#57758: May 25th 2016 at 7:40:20 AM

[up]I don't know if I would see it that way? I They already flirted in TWS, and I don't find it implausible that they would hit it off. And they are a couple in the comics, so I don't necessarily see it as forced heterosexuality. But obviously the romantic aspect of their relationship wasn't high on the writers'/directors' agenda - Sharon does far more in terms of giving Steve access to information, and helping him get his and Sam's gear back later.

yellowturtle from Nowhere Important Since: Feb, 2015 Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
#57759: May 25th 2016 at 7:42:25 AM

[up][up] Ugh, I hated that kiss so much. Expect for Sam and Bucky's reactions [lol]

edited 25th May '16 7:42:44 AM by yellowturtle

Crow: There's a plot?
DeathsApprentice The Ultimate Lifeform from The Ark Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
The Ultimate Lifeform
#57760: May 25th 2016 at 7:44:05 AM

Sam and Bucky's reactions were seriously golden. They made the kiss worth it for me. They're such proud wingmen!

When we're done, there won't be anything left.
MousaThe14 Writer, Artist, Ignored from Northern Virginia Since: Jan, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Writer, Artist, Ignored
#57761: May 25th 2016 at 7:45:54 AM

[up][up][up]It had little build up and no place in the movie. Like most romances. When I think Thor did a better job then there's a problem.

And adaptations change things all the time, I'm not looking to the comics for advice where Pepper and Tony aren't an item and the head of AIM is literally a giant head.

edited 25th May '16 7:46:03 AM by MousaThe14

The Blog The Art
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#57762: May 25th 2016 at 7:47:07 AM

the head of AIM is literally a giant head.

YOU SHUT YOUR HEATHEN MOUTH WHEN TALKING ABOUT OUR LORD AND SAVIOR MODOK!

HE IS SCIENCE INCARNATE, BROTHER! EMBRACE HIM!

edited 25th May '16 7:47:25 AM by Gaon

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
MousaThe14 Writer, Artist, Ignored from Northern Virginia Since: Jan, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Writer, Artist, Ignored
#57763: May 25th 2016 at 7:50:56 AM

I'm not dismissing MODOK, I want MODOK. I'm just saying things change.

The Blog The Art
hollygoolightly Since: Apr, 2012 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#57764: May 25th 2016 at 7:51:35 AM

[up][up][up]But that's a problem of build up, not of the relationship being out of nowhere in general. There are hints to something building in TWS. The way it was executed was obviously very anemic, they could have put more work into that. But that's a general problem for the MCU romances aside from Pepper/Tony maybe.

Not everything from the comics will find its way into the movies, thankfully, but if someone who is a love interest in the comics shows up, the possibility of them having a similar role in the movies is still pretty high I think. That doesn't mean it has to work that way. I mean, Bucky's obviously not 15 in First Avenger, either. Sam doesn't have a real falcon. And so on.

edited 25th May '16 7:52:24 AM by hollygoolightly

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#57765: May 25th 2016 at 8:00:56 AM

To me, a Steve and Bucky romance would be no different than how some other people see Steve/Sharon.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#57766: May 25th 2016 at 8:07:07 AM

I kind of prefer that it's not a romance (referring to Bucky and Steve in this case), but then again, I'm generally not interested in romances. And the importance of his different friendships is something I really like about the Captain America movies. I mean, yes, if there can't be same sex romantic relationships especially for male characters, it's a big problem, but when every emotionally deep relationship between men has to be a romantic relationship, it's also a problem.

You say that as though emotionally deep relationships between men are ever depicted as romantic. Men going to extreme lengths to help their bros is something that happens all the time in fiction; the only thing that really sets Cap and Bucky apart is that the bro needing help is usually the main character, so people think nothing of it because supporting characters exist to serve him anyway.

The best friend/sidekick who will cross Hell and high water in order to achieve the hero's goals is a classic staple of storytelling. And despite how the fandom may react, the Ron Weasleys and Samwise Gamgees and Han Solos never wind up in a romantic relationship with him.

There is no great, pressing need to prove that men can have platonic relationships with each other. Men in fiction are constantly having platonic relationships with each other. There is no shortage of platonic male/male friendships.

edited 25th May '16 8:08:23 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
hollygoolightly Since: Apr, 2012 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#57767: May 25th 2016 at 8:16:19 AM

[up]Yes and no, I'd say. It's an old trope, yes, but it's not used all that much anymore - the Sam/Frodo version works as an example, because Tolkien wrote that with dynamics in mind that he himself observed between soldiers in WW I, and because Tolkien himself came from an extremely homosocial environment - academics in the early to mid 20th century were still predominantly male. Ron and Han both have very different relationships to their best friends, and both are parts of a friendship triad, which involves their future wife. I don't think you can say that Ron is closer to Harry than to Hermione aside maybe from the first book, and Han is always closer to Leia than to Luke (and vice versa). Which goes back to the point I was trying to make, namely that intensely emotional relationship in "newer" fiction is almost always reserved for romantic couples, and not for best friends.

That said, I'm not saying that the lack of romantic same sex couples pretty much everywhere in entertainment, but especially in genre isn't a problem. For male relationships, not depicting intimacy and emotionality is a general problem. I'm also not saying that you can't or shouldn't see Bucky and Steve as romantic, I'm saying that I personally prefer them as a friendship. I'd also prefer a bigger role for Sharon to her being a love interest to Steve, but it doesn't bother me that she is a love interest, as long as she gets to be something else, too.

edited 25th May '16 8:21:04 AM by hollygoolightly

DeathsApprentice The Ultimate Lifeform from The Ark Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
The Ultimate Lifeform
#57768: May 25th 2016 at 8:32:27 AM

I really hope we get more development for Sharon, though I'm not sure where she'd get it. Civil War is supposed to be the end of the Captain America trilogy, right?

When we're done, there won't be anything left.
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#57769: May 25th 2016 at 8:37:01 AM

Hopefully she'll be in one part of Infinity War or something.

Moving back to the Joss Whedon news from earlier, what property would y'all think he'd be good at directing that's kinda Jessica Jones type?

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
stingerbrg Since: Jun, 2009
#57770: May 25th 2016 at 8:37:36 AM

Sorta? Infinity War is supposed to be a continuation of the story set by Winter Soldier and Civil War.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#57771: May 25th 2016 at 8:38:09 AM

[up][up] I posted it on the io9 article, but: Spider-Woman.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#57772: May 25th 2016 at 8:39:20 AM

So what exactly is Spider-Woman's whole deal in the comics that'd make Whedon a good fit for the character? I barely know anything about the character other than they made her to get the copyright for the name or something.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#57773: May 25th 2016 at 8:42:07 AM

To me, everything about the kiss between Steve and Sharon is part of the joke. It comes out of nowhere, they both basically respond with "Well, huh, that just happened", and then you have Sam and Bucky's "wingmen" moment as the punchline.

hollygoolightly Since: Apr, 2012 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#57774: May 25th 2016 at 8:42:58 AM

[up][up][up][up][up][up]She could still show up in other movies, too, I'd imagine, but Infinity War would be my guess also.

[up][up][up][up][up]He might? Going through those of his female leads I know in my head, she almost seems too dark and a bit too much of an asshole to be the type of character he goes for, but the snark and the tough facade should work well for him.

edited 25th May '16 8:44:22 AM by hollygoolightly

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#57775: May 25th 2016 at 8:44:23 AM

How is Jessica Drew dark, exactly? Keep in mind, I know barely anything about the character. I don't know her origin or her powers or anything like that.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?

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