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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

PhiSat Planeswalker from Everywhere and Nowhere Since: Jan, 2011
Planeswalker
#57376: May 19th 2016 at 1:34:12 PM

She has knives for fingers, she did that to herself. Why is S.H.I.E.L.D even involved with her? She should have just gotten thrown in regular prison. Or you know, cut off her fingers then throw her in regular prison. Yes, it's a provable event, but if S.H.I.E.L.D is so vigilant they want to deal with c-list villains like that I'm pretty sure they'd have the diligence to follow up surprisingly similar rumours about a British guy able to mind control people.

It's been a while since I've seen any AOS though, sorry. I thought she'd only killed her boyfriend before being arrested.

Oissu!
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#57377: May 19th 2016 at 1:38:45 PM

It's apples to oranges. All she proves is that S.H.I.E.L.D. is willing to consider "powers" as stupid as self-applied knife-fingers worthy of being Indexed. The problem is, nothing about Kilgrave being under the radar has anything to do with S.H.I.E.L.D. thinking that mind control powers are too mundane to bother with. It has everything to do with Kilgrave's flavor of mind control being impossible to prove beyond rumor and heresay, 90% of which never even gets said anyway.

Absolutely, if S.H.I.E.L.D. had police reports and news reports and loads of evidence that a man is running around controlling minds, they would do the same thing they did with Karla and hunt him down. If Kilgrave was running into every police station going, "Every cop in the world, shoot yourself in the brain!" over and over or something similarly public, they would be all over him like a pack of dogs on a three-legged cat.

But he's not. The most public he ever got was a "hilarious joke" in a police station that nobody's going to be thinking twice about in 12 hours when his influence wears off. The problem isn't that they don't care. The problem is that they don't know. S.H.I.E.L.D. investigates facts, not urban legends and superstitions.

There are too many rumors in the world to dedicate a team of specialists to investigate each and every one.

edited 19th May '16 1:40:06 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#57378: May 19th 2016 at 1:40:50 PM

there was a New York Bulletin in the last episode of Ao S....which is why the show is so important, it ties everything together.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#57379: May 19th 2016 at 1:41:36 PM

What does the New York Bulletin have to do with anything?

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
PhiSat Planeswalker from Everywhere and Nowhere Since: Jan, 2011
Planeswalker
#57380: May 19th 2016 at 1:45:22 PM

Except at the very least as a kid, he was probably doing very noticeable things. And it's not like he could turn it on and off either, as he himself says. I doubt a child had the patience to slowly train himself to say things so he was only ever controlling people he wanted to, that would have come later.

I just find it very hard to believe someone with as noticeable a power as Killgrave avoided SH.I.E.L.D's notice when c-list fodder does not. And yes, it is noticeable, he can't just tell people to forget about what he does to them and he's left quite a trail of bodies behind him. Someone would have spoken up, even if only on the Internet.

Oissu!
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#57381: May 19th 2016 at 1:47:21 PM

What does the New York Bulletin have to do with anything?
That's the newspaper Ben Urich worked for in Daredevil.

I just find it very hard to believe someone with as noticeable a power as Killgrave avoided SH.I.E.L.D's notice when c-list fodder does not.
Remember in the flashbacks in Jessica Jones, Kilgrave was looking for that thumb drive filled with videos of his childhood. It was probable that he was making sure that nobody knew he existed - it's very possible that Kilgrave may have come across a SHIELD agent and told them, "Erase everything you have on me and forget I exist."

edited 19th May '16 1:48:46 PM by alliterator

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#57382: May 19th 2016 at 2:10:09 PM

Kilgrave can't erase memories, he said so himself.

Oh God! Natural light!
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#57383: May 19th 2016 at 2:13:33 PM

He can recontextualize memories though

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#57384: May 19th 2016 at 2:16:52 PM

We're back to arguing about the fact that the different mediums don't interact? Look, not everyone with Netflix has access to or interest in AOS and vice-versa. Furthermore the events of DD and JJ so far have been low key enough to slip under the radar. Nothing the Hand, Kilgrave, or Fisk have done is worth getting the Avengers or Shield involved. The lack of continuity between AOS and the movies is a bit harder to justify but I'm not too bothered. Sure they could put Daisy or another Inhuman in Civil War but AOS has its own plot going on concurrently.

PhiSat Planeswalker from Everywhere and Nowhere Since: Jan, 2011
Planeswalker
#57385: May 19th 2016 at 2:32:12 PM

[up]A mass murdering serial rapist with Mind Control powers isn't worth S.H.I.E.L.D's attention?

Oissu!
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#57386: May 19th 2016 at 2:33:15 PM

No, a rumor that there may or may not exist somewhere in the world a person who sometimes causes people to do things they might have wanted to do anyway, you can't prove they didn't, is not worth S.H.I.E.L.D.'s time. Again: there are a million rumors in the world.

edited 19th May '16 2:34:01 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#57387: May 19th 2016 at 2:39:24 PM

I supoose I misspoke. Kilgrave and The Hand are worth their time but Shield has no knowledge of them. Theoretically they could have found out at some point but it's not too weird that they didn't. By contrast they might have some knowledge of Fisk but he's not a direct threat to national safety so there's no reason to investigate him.

edited 19th May '16 2:40:38 PM by Kostya

Ekuran Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#57388: May 19th 2016 at 2:46:28 PM

Or you all can stop pretending that the response to Killgrave is anything other than the arbitrary whims of the writers.

Maybe Killgrave is a stupid fuck who'd leave too big of a trail to not be found out and captured/killed. Maybe not. Either way of thinking only validates what you arbitrarily want to believe because it fits into your preconceived biases of whether you think it makes sense or not, there's no real way of proving it because it's all stupid make-believe.

dRoy Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar from Most likely from my study Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just high on the world
Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar
#57389: May 19th 2016 at 2:49:33 PM

.......

Man, whenever I drop by to post funny images in this thread, the thread is in a middle of a discussion, often serious in nature. XP

Continuously reading, studying, and (hopefully) growing.
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#57390: May 19th 2016 at 2:50:31 PM

Ekuran, you really need to use a different tone. It isn't productive to healthy, friendly discussion.

edited 19th May '16 3:04:49 PM by VeryMelon

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#57391: May 19th 2016 at 3:13:23 PM

Or you all can stop pretending that the response to Killgrave is anything other than the arbitrary whims of the writers.
Everything is due to the arbitrary whims of the writer. You could easily say the same thing about any single character. Why does Zemo do what he does? The arbitrary whims of the writer. Why does Thanos keep sitting on his space toilet? The arbitrary whims of the writer.

The point is that we are trying to find more reasonable explanations for why SHIELD never investigated Kilgrave or the Hand.

PhiSat Planeswalker from Everywhere and Nowhere Since: Jan, 2011
Planeswalker
#57392: May 19th 2016 at 3:41:10 PM

HYDRA covered it up for the lulz.

Oissu!
MousaThe14 Writer, Artist, Ignored from Northern Virginia Since: Jan, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Writer, Artist, Ignored
#57393: May 19th 2016 at 3:43:18 PM

Nah, an organization that wants 100% total world order would want Kilgrave and his capabilities in a heartbeat. And then try to mass produce the power to be effective over entire nations for key leaders.

The Blog The Art
hollygoolightly Since: Apr, 2012 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#57394: May 19th 2016 at 4:01:26 PM

They probably tried to recruit him at various points but the agents kept not returning.

ExplosiveLion Since: Mar, 2016 Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
#57396: May 19th 2016 at 4:40:58 PM

Ekuran, calm the hell down.

Complaining (and in such a hostile manner) about us discussing a character or a show comes off douchy and moronic, specially because this is TV Tropes and that's what we are supposed to be doing here. Like, come on, this ain't 4chan.

Anyways, back on the Kilgrave topic. I sincerely don't see Kilgrave doing anything to gain SHIELD's attention. Going by what we saw in Jessica Jones, most of the time he just indulges in petty crimes (without he himself being directly involved) like stealing and stuff. He also mind controls and either rapes or abuses people, but I don't see his victims denouncing him for thst because, let's face it, nobody would believe them.

I reckon he's little more than a baseless rumour.

edited 19th May '16 4:43:22 PM by ExplosiveLion

Cross (Don’t ask)
#57397: May 19th 2016 at 4:56:26 PM

You mean like those psychics SHIELD checked out?

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#57398: May 19th 2016 at 5:05:19 PM

Said psychics probably did something to warrant attention. Here's the thing, Kilgrave's powers,not his actions, warrant Shield's attention. If they knew about him then he would absolutely be brought in and controlled. However nothing he does in JJ would put him on their radar. Heck, his big plan for the season is to emotionally torture one woman. He's a malicious prick but he isn't a significant threat.

RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#57399: May 19th 2016 at 5:12:26 PM

Yeah, from what we see of him, he seems to try to make a point of keeping a low profile. (Doesn't he specifically mention that he never even appears on camera if he can help it?) There was, of course, the bit where he forces a station full of cops to hold guns to each other's heads, but he's sure to inform them that it was all just a hilarious prank afterwards.

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
Cross (Don’t ask)
#57400: May 19th 2016 at 5:13:23 PM

Some his known acts would be kidnapping, home invasion, assisted suicide, petty larceny, and probably a few others. Basically what I'm trying to say is while he does cover some of his actions, we see he doesn't bother with all. If we take a look at, let's say, the 10-15 years since he got his powers can you really say he wouldn't do anything to attract attention based on what we've seen from him?


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