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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#57351: May 19th 2016 at 12:05:59 PM

They would have to be provable first. S.H.I.E.L.D. does not employ Charles Xavier to use Cerebro and scan the planet looking for any active superpower being used at any time. They're forced to rely on intel. If they don't hear about it, their agents don't show up.

They're cops, not psychics. Nine times out of ten, they aren't going to show up if nobody dials the phone.

edited 19th May '16 12:08:28 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
MousaThe14 Writer, Artist, Ignored from Northern Virginia Since: Jan, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Writer, Artist, Ignored
#57352: May 19th 2016 at 12:08:03 PM

Intel that relies on human beings that can be manipulated by tiny presumably purple viruses.

The Blog The Art
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#57353: May 19th 2016 at 12:09:42 PM

Thats why we need more robot superheroes

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Cross (Don’t ask)
#57354: May 19th 2016 at 12:11:04 PM

Kilgrave is a weird case because he still flaunts it, using his power for petty things.

MousaThe14 Writer, Artist, Ignored from Northern Virginia Since: Jan, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Writer, Artist, Ignored
#57355: May 19th 2016 at 12:15:27 PM

Petty things no one can prove. You can't prove he told someone to walk away or to stand in place, it's so easy to assume that they did it themselves for whatever reason.

Sure, what Loki did could count as mind control that SHIELD and other authorities should be more wary of however the fact he needed a unique object to do it would also mean that it was an isolated incident isolated to one item so odds are mind control is not likely to be a power that's out there in the world.

There are so many reasons why Kilgrave would go unnoticed and why no one would be going out of there to suspect mind controllers.

Heck, the Loki info was probably information kept within SHIELD, after all, who in the ordinary public would need to know government operatives had their minds washed by an alien dictator?

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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#57356: May 19th 2016 at 12:22:59 PM

At its most basic level - and true to the metaphor - the hardest thing about having Kilgrave arrested is that he isn't even going to be investigated until his victims start talking to the police. Which they aren't inclined to do because nobody would take their accusations seriously. Except for those select few who do it anyway, whose effort will immediately be undermined because nobody will take their accusations seriously.

edited 19th May '16 12:24:33 PM by TobiasDrake

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Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#57357: May 19th 2016 at 12:25:37 PM

The fact that Loki's scepter also has visual effects on its victims, briefly darkening their eyes before replacing them with weird irises, at least serves as some form of evidence that something is going on.

Not only does Kilgrave's mind control leave no calling card, it also causes its victims to behave normally outside of following Kilgrave's orders, making it much harder to point at and say "look, mind control!" Look at how long Luke Cage played the unwilling role of double agent before Kilgrave revealed what was going on.

edited 19th May '16 12:27:06 PM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#57358: May 19th 2016 at 12:32:10 PM

Actually, Clint and Selvig appeared to be somewhat themselves while under his control, just like with Killgrave's victims.

But it is true that there are less visual signs of Killgrave's mind control.

Damn. It's a very good thing Loki never knew about the latter. Imagine what the two of them could have done together.

One Strip! One Strip!
Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#57360: May 19th 2016 at 12:33:36 PM

There's always the possibility that Coulson sent some agents to check on the situation and they either found nothing or found Kilgrave and reported that they found nothing. Maybe it would have been nice to have a couple SHIELD agents knock on Jessica's door asking questions, but most of the world still sees SHIELD and HYDRA as one and the same, so it makes investigations a little difficult.

edited 19th May '16 12:34:28 PM by Discar

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#57361: May 19th 2016 at 12:35:38 PM

[up][up][up]It wouldn't work so well for one of them.

"Give me your scepter."

"Okay."

"Now go jump off a skyscraper."

"Okay."

*wham*

"I did as you said."

"How did you survive that?!"

"I am a god."

"Oh. Bully. You're my personal bodyguard now."

"Okay."

edited 19th May '16 12:35:46 PM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
PhiSat Planeswalker from Everywhere and Nowhere Since: Jan, 2011
Planeswalker
#57362: May 19th 2016 at 12:38:01 PM

It is possible, I just would have been a lot more satisfied if that was brought up. Maybe that could have been the reason Killgrave even hired private security in the first place, he almost got taken by S.H.I.E.L.D agents before.

Oissu!
Cross (Don’t ask)
#57363: May 19th 2016 at 12:39:11 PM

[up][up][up][up]More or less my thinking. If there were rumors or even hints of someone with Kilgrave's power SHIELD would have checked it out especially when you considered the age he started and for how long.

edited 19th May '16 12:40:04 PM by Cross

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#57364: May 19th 2016 at 12:41:42 PM

Except considering Killgrave was doing this for years you'd think some of the victims would go to S.H.I.E.L.D in the first place because they're the exact people who deal with super crime and would take the matter seriously.

One does not just go to S.H.I.E.L.D. It's not like they have public offices for people to report crimes. They don't advertise on late-night television or have Customer Service respondents handling emails. If they did, they'd be constantly inundated by ridiculous claims like "My neighbor's psychic powers made my kitty attack him" or "I think my husband's been replaced by an alien." Kilgrave's report would fit right in.

They're a globe-trotting spy agency, not a public service. They come to you. But in order to do that, there needs to be news feeds or police reports or a government official with a bone to pick. Something to get the message to them.

If aliens attack Madagascar, S.H.I.E.L.D. gets involved. If a man with lightning powers shows up on the news shooting lightning at a high school, S.H.I.E.L.D. gets involved. You regret a bad decision you're not sure why you made? Talk to the cops, not S.H.I.E.L.D.'s jurisdiction.

edited 19th May '16 12:44:22 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#57365: May 19th 2016 at 1:15:44 PM

Or when the TV shows ignore stuff happening in other TV shows.
The fact is that AOS doesn't ignore what's happening in the Netflix shows — observe one news report on the show about "gang wars" in Hell's Kitchen. It's simply that the two shows have separate storylines that don't interconnect.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#57366: May 19th 2016 at 1:17:24 PM

Also, side note: Daredevil and Daisy Johnson were both raised in the same orphanage, St. Agnes.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#57367: May 19th 2016 at 1:18:41 PM

Yeah, it's not like the movies, which don't even acknowledge the shows exist (since the movies take so much longer to make then the shows).

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#57368: May 19th 2016 at 1:19:28 PM

The Netflix and Broadcast TV shows have more leeway to reference each other because they're the same medium. The films have to be made with the assumption that moviegoers aren't watching the TV shows to keep up.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#57369: May 19th 2016 at 1:21:18 PM

Can't the same be said for the shows? The Netflix shows can make a reasonable assumption that people watch the other Netflix shows but there's no reason to assume that someone who watches Agents has been following or even has Netflix to follow the other shows, nor is there a reason to assume that someone who watches the Netflix shows cares overmuch about broadcast programming.

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Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#57370: May 19th 2016 at 1:21:30 PM

Civil War did have a news reel mentioning the ATCU and some other events from Agents. It's not much, but it's there.

The biggest oversight was in Age of Ultron. It would have been so easy to have someone from the show on the Hellicarrier. No need to draw any attention to them, just have them there so fans of the show see the connection. They should have just put Patton Oswalt next to Fury, and have everyone on the bridge wearing lanyards.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#57371: May 19th 2016 at 1:22:38 PM

That's why I said leeway.

edited 19th May '16 1:22:46 PM by VeryMelon

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#57372: May 19th 2016 at 1:23:09 PM

Also that. [up][up]

You don't need to assume that everyone will get the reference to justify having a reference.

edited 19th May '16 1:23:20 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#57373: May 19th 2016 at 1:23:27 PM

Civil War did have a news reel mentioning the ATCU and some other events from Agents. It's not much, but it's there.
Really? I don't remember that. I remember the newsreel on You Tube, but that was a Youtube only thing.

They should have just put Patton Oswalt next to Fury, and have everyone on the bridge wearing lanyards.
That would have been the best thing ever.

edited 19th May '16 1:23:56 PM by alliterator

PhiSat Planeswalker from Everywhere and Nowhere Since: Jan, 2011
Planeswalker
#57374: May 19th 2016 at 1:23:59 PM

I could maybe buy that if S.H.I.E.L.D didn't have a huge office and thousands of field agents, and apparently so many prisoners they had multiple facilities to contain them and that's not even counting the people they just monitor in the field on house arrest and such. I doubt all of those people went on mass murder sprees and attracted a bunch of attention. Hell, there was one woman that was just under S.H.I.E.L.D jurisdiction for sticking razor blades to her fingernails and killing her boyfriend. Even rumours about someone like Killgrave (and no way there wouldn't be any rumours ever, Killgrave is super blatant about using his powers) would have attracted a lot of attention. Especially since he started when he was a kid, kids don't have the restraint it would take to avoid attention.

edited 19th May '16 1:24:09 PM by PhiSat

Oissu!
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#57375: May 19th 2016 at 1:29:46 PM

You're referring to Karla Faye Gideon, who proceeded to go on a killing spree with her ridiculously stupid "power" before she was apprehended. While her power is disappointingly stupid, the fact is that "a bunch of people murdered by a woman with knives for fingers" is remarkably provable and would have no trouble making it through the chain of command either before or after her arrest.

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