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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#57301: May 19th 2016 at 9:25:57 AM

Bessie the Hellcow, please. She's a vampire cow. Turned by Dracula himself.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#57302: May 19th 2016 at 9:29:59 AM

People are busy and vampires are hardly a massive threat. A vampire here or there is a street-level threat. There's no reason they should be considered more dangerous than, say, Doctor Doom or the Brotherhood of Mutants or Galactus. Nobody shies away from fighting vampires if they happen upon one, but most superheroes aren't making a dedicated effort to root out all vampires and destroy them because they're busy dealing with other things.

That's pretty much always the answer to, "Why isn't X superhero getting involved in this?" Because he's doing stuff. Sure, all the superheroes of the world COULD drop what they're doing and spend the next six months tracking down and exterminating every last vampire in existence. Then, when they're done, they'll come home to find Magneto wiped out half the planet, Doom controls the other half, and Galactus is setting up shop. Because while every superhero on the planet was worrying about vampires, nobody was doing anything about those guys.

edited 19th May '16 9:30:40 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
FictionWriterKing Since: Apr, 2016
#57303: May 19th 2016 at 9:31:30 AM

Vampires are kinda like Inhumans. They have their own culture and societies that other people stay away from. And there aren't many

edited 19th May '16 9:32:05 AM by FictionWriterKing

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#57304: May 19th 2016 at 9:33:32 AM

See, and that's what I don't agree with. Those Vampires roam the street and randomly kill people AND they can create more dangerous Vampires to roam the street. That is on the one hand a huge threat and one the other hand one the various heroes could easily deal with. There is no excuse for Vampire being in the MCU, none.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#57305: May 19th 2016 at 9:33:47 AM

[up][up] Inhumans are isolationist. They found a pocket of the world to secret themselves away to and never interact with humans again.

Vampires, by definition, cannot be. The most fundamental aspect of vampires is that they eat people. It is physically impossible for a vampire society to never interact with human society in any way.

[up] It's really not that huge a threat. A vampire is no more dangerous than a serial killer. People die every day.

edited 19th May '16 9:34:56 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#57306: May 19th 2016 at 9:34:04 AM

So how come the Avengers never fight Apocalypse?

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#57307: May 19th 2016 at 9:37:42 AM

The Uncanny Avengers fought the Apocalypse Twins once.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#57308: May 19th 2016 at 9:39:15 AM

Once and it wasn't even Apocalypse himself.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#57309: May 19th 2016 at 9:39:38 AM

To clarify, what makes a vampire a street-level threat is the lack of scope. Vampires target, prey upon, and kill individuals. A vampire will never destroy an entire city. A vampire will never be a global threat that may wipe out all life. A vampire will never end the universe. A vampire is just an infrequent single-target murderer.

So long as their population isn't depicted as unreasonably large like having hundreds of vampires in a single city, there's no reason they can't fly under the radar.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#57310: May 19th 2016 at 9:39:54 AM

It's not a big deal. Super Heroes are busy with their own supervillains.

edited 19th May '16 9:40:03 AM by VeryMelon

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#57311: May 19th 2016 at 9:47:29 AM

So how come the Avengers never fight Apocalypse?

They have.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#57312: May 19th 2016 at 9:48:29 AM

They don't fly under the radar, though, Blade knows about them and Blade interacts with other heroes. And they just say "oh, a whole population of Vampires who randomly kill people? How terrible. Well, I guess you can deal with it on your own." ?????? Nope, that doesn't fly by me. We are not talking about a threat like the Kingpin, who is basically a common criminal, or Killgrave whose very existence is hard to proof. We are talking about a group of serial murderers. Sure, the other heroes have their own enemies, but it is not like they get attacked every single day.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#57313: May 19th 2016 at 9:49:34 AM

[up][up]Also, in comics, there's often a division between villains - there are villains specific to Spider-Man, Captain America, the X-Men, et cetera. Apocalypse is almost always considered an "X-Men villain" and therefore the X-Men (or a related X-team) are usually the ones to face off with him.

In recent years, this has changed, but for the longest time, the X-Men section of the Marvel universe was kept pretty far apart from the rest.

[up] Never underestimate the ability of people to make up explanations. "Gangs on PCP" I believe.

edited 19th May '16 9:50:18 AM by alliterator

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#57314: May 19th 2016 at 9:51:40 AM

I don't care how they do it in the comics, I mostly want the MCU to keep orderly. The biggest thing it has over the comics it that it does have a proper continuity and inner logic.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#57315: May 19th 2016 at 9:52:36 AM

Yeah, that's something that always annoyed me about the X-Men part of the comic verse. I mean, they were able to work Kang the Conqueror and Dracula into Apocalypse's backstory, but then they just leave him for the X-Men to deal with most of the time. At least Magneto fights with the Avengers a lot and actually teams up with villains some.

Speaking of which, wasn't there a crossover type deal once where Magneto, Doctor Doom, Kingpin, Wizard, Mandarin, and Red Skull all teamed up with Loki and swapped enemies?

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#57316: May 19th 2016 at 9:54:03 AM

[up][up][up]

As slow as people are to accept that they're dealing with the supernatural, cops are always the last ones to catch on. They can watch the Blob dissolve through a kindergarten and suggest out loud that they must have drank too much this morning. No matter what, a cop in a science fiction movie uses drugs as the explanation for everything. Did a dead body get up and eat the coroner? "PCP." Did a viking frost giant knock down a skyscraper? "Stack of PCP abusers." Did Star Man bring a dead deer back to life? "That's just what gay sex looks like when you see it for the first time."

[up][up]Marvel's already expressed the desire to eventually use Blade again someday, so it's gonna happen. What people are saying is that vampires in the MCU is not nearly the impossibility you're making it out to be.

edited 19th May '16 9:55:32 AM by comicwriter

FictionWriterKing Since: Apr, 2016
#57317: May 19th 2016 at 9:57:34 AM

"We are not talking about a threat like the Kingpin, who is basically a common criminal, or Killgrave whose very existence is hard to proof." Kingpin is not a common criminal. He's the guy who employees common criminals to do his bidding. The Kingpin has more power than any real-life mobster. He rules on 80+% of the East Coast’s organized crime, and he *is* organized crime in New York.

Kingpin in the MCU will eventually reach his comic status if they keep on going at

edited 19th May '16 9:59:16 AM by FictionWriterKing

stingerbrg Since: Jun, 2009
#57318: May 19th 2016 at 10:00:32 AM

Compared to a Norse god leading an army of aliens, Kingpin is mundane.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#57319: May 19th 2016 at 10:01:44 AM

[up][up][up] I am not opposed of them using him, I am opposed of them using him in this reality of the MCU. I don't want him near this nice, orderly universe, unless it is in some sort of alternate reality. And honestly, "someday" is very vague and might mean nothing.

edited 19th May '16 10:01:56 AM by Swanpride

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#57320: May 19th 2016 at 10:05:28 AM

Perhaps, but like I said, he's a character who would very easily be done on a Netflix budget. I have a feeling he's coming eventually.

FictionWriterKing Since: Apr, 2016
#57321: May 19th 2016 at 10:10:03 AM

Compared to the everyday human criminal inside and outside the MCU he is not. Compared to everyone above him then yes. While on the same plane of existence, he stands out.

Asguardians are mundane within outerspace cultural, being just another warrior race much like Nova Corps is a typical space cop organization patrolling that part of the universe (speaking about MCU only). Now Thor is larger than life, having far more importance than 95% of Asgurdians. The Nova Corps or Asgurdains have come across as a rarity or something breaking outside the norm apart from the individuals they're made up of.

As for a conflict. Well Kingpin isn't a big enough stake for larger than life superhero teams to gang up on unless he somehow got his hands on a weapon allowing for that situation to arise.

edited 19th May '16 10:18:57 AM by FictionWriterKing

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#57322: May 19th 2016 at 10:10:08 AM

Skimming the thread to avoid Netflix series spoilers, but...

[up][up][up][up]Compared to a Norse "god", "Just some guy with a bit of education" doesn't sound impressive either. And yet which one took down the Avengers?

edited 19th May '16 10:10:29 AM by wanderlustwarrior

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#57323: May 19th 2016 at 10:14:02 AM

Of course the real reason that the Avengers don't fight Apocalypse is because Apocalypse is a X-Men villain.

Whenever Apocalypse pops up, the X-Men deal with him. Take a look at what the Avengers were doing those same publication months and they were probably dealing with something else.

Even the Apocalypse Twins were fought by the Avengers team that was half X-Men. And also, terrible.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#57324: May 19th 2016 at 10:21:05 AM

I'm just saying, surely there should be more than just a few instances of the Avengers fighting Apocalypse. Heroes sometimes share the same rogues gallery. Mysterio sometimes fights Daredevil, the Avengers and the Fantastic Four both fight Doctor Doom, Juggernaut fights both the X-Men and the Hulk, and occasionally Spider-Man.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#57325: May 19th 2016 at 10:26:19 AM

And yet the Avengers never fight Mr Sinister and the X-Men never fight the Squadron Supreme (probably)

Sometimes there is overlap, sometimes there isn't.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers

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