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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#57001: May 13th 2016 at 2:49:40 PM

[up][up] Could be, though it was a big part of White Wolf's character that he was visibly foreign. Whereas true, African Americans are not the same as native Africans, and a lot of them have mixed ancestry, but Michael B. Jordan can pass as a Wakandan native much more easily.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#57002: May 13th 2016 at 2:53:25 PM

True but he's also part of the family that runs the country. If it were public that he was adopted and not from there pretty much everyone would know it. It'd be like Prince William trying to pretend he's not Prince William.

Punisher286 Since: Jan, 2016
#57003: May 13th 2016 at 3:08:28 PM

I could also see him playing Moses Magnum.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#57004: May 13th 2016 at 3:17:05 PM

Honestly, we don't need another toxic sibling relationship at this point. This will look too much like Marvel repeating itself.

TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#57005: May 13th 2016 at 3:32:55 PM

Um, hi, is there some kind of controversy thing going on with M'Baku the Man-Ape?

Because I know squat about him and I only know of him from The Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes.

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#57006: May 13th 2016 at 3:43:46 PM

[up]I don't know about controversial but the idea of associating black people with apes has unfortunate implications attached to it.

Re: Jordan. Assuming he isn't playing a villain, I could see him playing Kevin Cole.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#57007: May 13th 2016 at 3:44:21 PM

[up][up]He's a black guy who dresses up like a monkey and calls himself Man-Ape what do you think is the problem?

[up]Oh that's good.

edited 13th May '16 3:51:50 PM by comicwriter

Punisher286 Since: Jan, 2016
#57008: May 13th 2016 at 3:53:27 PM

It's not like Marvel hasn't made changes to their villains before. For all we know, they'd make M'Baku some guy in a suit and tie, or a warlord in combat fatigues, and drop in a quick nod to the "Man Ape" thing in one scene (like they did with "Iron Monger" or "Abomination" in the previous films).

RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#57009: May 13th 2016 at 4:03:00 PM

Even if they did something like that...associating a black man with the phrase "man-ape," however tenuous the association may be, still has extremely negative connotations.

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#57010: May 13th 2016 at 4:06:15 PM

[up][up]I said earlier I was joking I can just see why they wouldn't want that association. It's needlessly inviting trouble.

FictionWriterKing Since: Apr, 2016
#57011: May 13th 2016 at 4:23:28 PM

Would people hitch if the Jabari tribe lived in this Wakada, worshiping the White Gorilla God? Africans worshiping apes... I think death tiger is great for a BP film based on CW

edited 13th May '16 4:26:24 PM by FictionWriterKing

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#57012: May 13th 2016 at 4:28:45 PM

The concept as with a lot of the way Wakanda is portrayed is a mishmash of pan-African "jungle" stereotypes that they're going to have to be careful with the way they go about updating Wakanda to get it out of its past pulp sensibilities. So far Civil War did well with its portrayal of the Wakandans though, and there's a lot of potential for Afrofuturism Scenery Porn out the wazoo.

edited 13th May '16 4:30:13 PM by AlleyOop

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#57013: May 13th 2016 at 4:33:21 PM

If Jordan is Killmonger I wonder if they'd joke about the silliness of the moniker like they did with Kilgrave.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#57014: May 13th 2016 at 4:35:37 PM

They did that with The Purple Man because the Netflix shows are more serious about their comic material than the films are.

hollygoolightly Since: Apr, 2012 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#57015: May 13th 2016 at 4:38:46 PM

[up][up]Given that Ryan Coogler is writing & directing Black Panther, I hope they can avoid trappings like that.

edited 13th May '16 4:39:37 PM by hollygoolightly

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#57016: May 13th 2016 at 4:42:07 PM

M'baku as a Wakandan military leader of some kind sounds likely.

M'baku fills a fairly essential villain slot as "traditionalist Wakandan leader who dislikes T'challa's practices and wants to return things to the way they were before him and/or his father," which is an important role to have given the storyline T'challa has upon becoming king - he's Wakanda's only major internal antagonist.

And it's be really easy to do him while just eschewing all the Unfortunate Implications.

edited 13th May '16 4:43:39 PM by KnownUnknown

FictionWriterKing Since: Apr, 2016
#57017: May 13th 2016 at 4:45:56 PM

[up] 5 Not really. All deities are true in the MU, so two African Gods, Bast and Gherka, actually exist. From context, I get the impression that the Gherka is native to Wakanda (and more generally the Great Lakes region) whereas the Panther God/Bast is an import from the North, as adapted to local tales and traditions. Bast is based on the Ennead of the same name. If we look outside MU lore then Gherka is closet to Toth. However, Gherka is an enemy of Bast within MU lore. The Jabari tribe, who are native to Wakanda, worship the sliver apes residing in the Crstal Forest, the coldest area of Wakanda. They wear clothing reminiscent of Lapp. T'achaka outlawed Wakandas to practice any religion involving Gherka, renouncing this God has to convert over to Bast. After Klaw killed him, the tribe rose up to worship their God again, which led to an all out civil war when others heard about it.

Overall there's some mythological aspect to Wakanda that's treated as as historical part of the MU. The made up belief system doesn't sound stereotypical. It's just not detailed as it could be. How does one adapt this to the MCU well

edited 13th May '16 4:59:22 PM by FictionWriterKing

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#57018: May 13th 2016 at 4:46:09 PM

You mean dump the whole Man-Ape deal right?

I'd be down for that.

One Strip! One Strip!
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#57019: May 13th 2016 at 4:47:34 PM

[up][up][up][up][up] Depending on the Writer the movies eschew the use of the names a lot too. I'm trying to remember, did they call Wanda Scarlet Witch at all in the films so far?

hollygoolightly Since: Apr, 2012 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#57020: May 13th 2016 at 4:47:41 PM

[up][up][up][up]A character like that would also fit in well with the situation how it presents itself after Civil War - opening up to the world promptly let to the King being murdered and his inexperienced son taking the throne - a traditionalist/isolationist would likely see his point of view verifiedand might believe T'Challa to be easily out-maneouvred.

[up]IIRC, they can't call Wanda Scarlet Witch because of rights issues? Same like she can't be Magneto's daughter.

edited 13th May '16 4:49:45 PM by hollygoolightly

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#57021: May 13th 2016 at 4:51:54 PM

[up][up][up] Basically. Have him be emphasized as a general or a warrior.

In fact, a really cool way to homage the original concept while not falling into the Unfortunate Implications, would be to have him brag about once fighting and killing a White Ape himself and then took its skin, as a way of proving his strength and ability to take action or something while accusing T'Challa of being weak and complacent. We could even see the skin on his wall at some point, if we see M'Baku's home or office or something.

To which T'Challa notes that that sort of thing is exactly why M'Baku's way would be horrible and destructive.

But for villains in general, I really want to see Moses Magnum.

edited 13th May '16 4:53:21 PM by KnownUnknown

TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#57022: May 13th 2016 at 4:53:41 PM

Okay so I tried to figure what was going on with the whole black people and monkeys thing and...

Oh.

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh...

Words cannot describe how sorry I am that I didn't catch on all of that.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#57023: May 13th 2016 at 4:54:46 PM

[up][up][up]

Good point. And if they find out T'Challa's secretly been harboring Cap and his friends all this time, that'll be another reason for people to get upset and see Team Cap as a bunch of Marie Antoinettes.

edited 13th May '16 4:56:24 PM by AlleyOop

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#57024: May 13th 2016 at 4:58:52 PM

IIRC, they can't call Wanda Scarlet Witch because of rights issues? Same like she can't be Magneto's daughter.

I don't think that's the case. They still use it in promo stuff I think.

[up]That's similar to M'Baku's debut, where he tried to kill T'Challa for letting the Avengers into the country.

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#57025: May 13th 2016 at 5:08:35 PM

Does Wakanda have a prime minister?


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