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Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
rollin' on dubs
Ah, I just saw the Movie and here are my 2 cents:
- Zemo shows the flaw in Hydra's plan back in Winter Soldier: Hydra is a Generic Doomsday Villain, hoping to hold the world at gun point. There would always be someone pissed off enough to screw with even the bad guy's plans.
- Hydra is thankfully a Disc-One Final Boss in the MCU. Thanos is on his way and he would've eaten them for breakfast.
- Like Star Trek Voyager: the MCU is moving past some villains. Hydra was a very silly villain when it was shown that they were controlling SHIELD and were planning some HELICARRIERS to shoot a bunch of targets. That's Bond-villian shtick. And like a Bond villain, they are beaten and (aside from the series), in the movies there are washed up.
- Bucky reminds me of Seven of Nine: taken at a young age, a cyborg and brainwashed and crazy. Not saying it's a ripoff - far from it. Seven went from Ms. Fanservice to a really compelling character. Of course the movie has to compress things, but wow, they did a very good job with Bucky like the staff at Trek did with Seven of Nine.
- I'm sick of the whole "we're on the run because we're rebels the man just doesn't like us!" trope that invokes the Eight Deadly Words. Here, there is a reason some of the characters have to run. Like the A Team: accused of a crime they did not commit, but unlike the A-Team their movies won't suck.
- And of course Stark is not suicidal after Civil War, he has things to live for and is getting over his ego.
- And some of the characters have a valid reason for being on the run other than "I'm special and I fear the MAN!": Scarlet Witch is seen as a Person of Mass Destruction, Clint & Falcon are now criminals, Ant-Man was a criminal and has tech to hide,
- It's a shame about Pepper, but at least that makes sense. Ask anyone in the military: many mil-spouses just can't take the constant moves, a spouse Married to the Job and the constant stress. That Pepper didn't just up and quit during Ultron means she is a saint.
- Now if Paltrow would just fish or cut bait about being in the MCU. Seems she's is on the fence about returning. I get it, each as that "I'm an actress" and the MCU is a "B-movie" to her. Either take the paychecks or just leave.
Or, it's a consequence of Whedon falling into his Buffyverse ways. After he said he didn't want to have a big movie romance plot to prove men and women could just be friends.
Again, he's a consequence of Whedon falling into his Buffyverse ways. Ultron quipping would have been fine if that didn't make up the majority of his dialogue.
I have no problem with Ultron's snark. I have a problem with how effective of a villain he is.
If we got him to massacre people, like, actually commiting genocide in a small to medium scale while being snarky, he would automatically be a much, much more scary villain.
To me that's the problem with most superhero movies, and one that I actually appreciate from Man of Steel (even if it was in the middle of a meh movie). I want to know that people died. Not that I take any pleasure in it, but because then it makes the threat believable; because whatever the threat, we know that the villain can actually go through with it.
That's the problem with Quicksilver's death; it made the battle personal (also, come on Joss, Ultron had already lost, we don't need your whole "shocking and unexpected death" schtick right now). And that's not what we want, because the battle is not about the Avengers, is about the whole world. An Avenger dies, tough shit, keep fighting until every single one of you falls; that is your duty as a hero. But people die under your protection? You have to fight harder, because if you don't soon there's going to be nobody left to save and it's going to be on you.
That's what I liked about Civil War; that it actually adressed that, no matter how powerful you are, you'll never be able to save everyone, yet this shouldn't discourage you. It should strengthen your resolve and make you try harder so it won't happen again.
edited 11th May '16 10:25:00 PM by ExplosiveLion
Whedon: FUCK IT. I'M LEAVING ANYWAY. *Stomps on the toys*
Feige: Whedon, honey, that's not fair. Some of the other directors might have wanted to play with-
Whedon: I DON'T CARE! I'M THE BEST ONE!
Feige: And you still haven't played with Coulson after I fixed him for you. He even has a cool robot hand now!
Whedon: NO! HE'S DEAD! I HATE YOU, DAD!
My various fanfics.Whedon wasn't really doing anything any of the other directors weren't already doing. Or screenwriters. Or who knows who to blame. It wasn't even Whedon's idea to kill off Coulson for example.
Forever liveblogging the AvengersIt's not the killing off Coulson that bothers me, I get that. It's the "He's dead to me" or whatever the fuck he said.
Which makes me look like a huge asshole, come to think of it.
My various fanfics.As Explositelion said, Wheedon get to...indunge in his own style, everyone quips, the fight is just a HUGE showoff, Steve make a decision of saving people and in the end a huge deus ex machina take that issue for him and Ultron is a wasted...
Ao U is pretty much "the Avenger...but MORE!"
"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"Its not really a deus ex machina. Nick Fury lampshaded in the middle of the movie that he was going to come back and do something dramatic. He even borrowed Maria Hill.
Forever liveblogging the AvengersIn context he was criticizing the problem resurrections had on Death Is Cheap. He wasn't taking personal digs at Coulson, or Bucky, or Stane and whoever else he mentioned there at all. He just has a really casual and pigheaded way of talking about things that his Hatedom likes to weaponize against him as proof he's Immoral And Problematic And Hates You And Everything You Like or what have you.
I think it is a deus ex machina, even if it was foreshadowed, but I'd rather have a good deus ex machina save the heroes after they've shown themselves to be willing to stick to their morals unto death, rather than a Diabolus ex Machina like Quicksilver's death for little point than shock value.
It's sort of like the furnace in Toy Story 3. The important part was the toys/Avengers staying together and refusing to abandon for self-survival. Having them be roasted alive/Sokovia falling and everyone in the city die wouldn't have added any further meaning that we the viewers wouldn't already get.
edited 11th May '16 11:34:43 PM by Tuckerscreator
The reason Whedon said "Coulson is still dead in the movies" is because he didn't want to confuse people who didn't watch AoS. The truth behind Coulson's death took a season and a half to fully explore; just having him show up as a cameo wouldn't work, because the Avengers would demand an explanation.
Now, admittedly, there is an easy explanation that covers everything without spoiling the show—"Fury lies." But I can understand why Whedon just wanted to avoid the issue entirely. I am hoping Coulson or one of the other AoS characters gets a cameo soon, though. Doesn't even have to be explained, just a random SHIELD agent in the background.
They might even be able to do the reverse, get an Avenger on the show. The Sokovia Accords mean that technically SHIELD (through its more legitimate affiliates) is allowed to call them for help, though Coulson doesn't like the red tape the Accords cause.
edited 11th May '16 11:33:58 PM by Discar
Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.![]()
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Even them it just rise more question about how he go that thing around since shield was blow off to hell in Winter soldier(rending that movie ending weaker for it) or how he got enought people to fly again or how Ultron didnt notice, and "Im going to do something" is still too vague, without Agent of Shield, Nick fury just made a new helicarrier out of nothing, is almost his own power
And more important, Nick dosent have any other rule that to ensure Steven dosent come as idiot after he vow to save people in sokovia, in the end he just stay there....and that it, it was pretty bad from his part and it almost look Wheedon corner himself
edited 11th May '16 11:35:25 PM by unknowing
"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
rollin' on dubs
There is a problem when creator's can't give up a character or they kill off a character too quickly storywise:
- Star Trek Deep Space Nine had one of the Big Bads have an ep dedicated to him and why he was cray-cray. It was a powerful episode that would have ended with the baddie dying, his arc complete....until the producers got it into their heads that they needed him for reasons (and kinda silly ones at that). It would be as if Strucker came back from the dead-but now he's part werewolf cyborg and has a hunger for blood!
- JMS had a problem on Babylon Five: Executive Meddling led to several actors leaving and the characters ending with them. He had to write fast. He had to end a lot of arcs and plots early because season four almost became the final season. Hence season five is So Okay, It's Average to die hard fans, or filler with The Scrappy arc (the colony of telepaths).
Now the movies are fun because Marvel has a bad tendency to not let characters die. Wolverine Publicity was named by one of their breakout characters.
Hydra is just a crappy James Bond villain and I'm happy to see them Demoted to Extra (unless it's Agents Of SHIELD, Hydra has a purpose there).
Having a lot of the villains and some of the heroes die shows a sense of time passing, scope and that there are real stakes.
Going back to Star Trek: all those Red Shirts became a running gag because the writers did have to deal with Hollywood and agents and actors etc. Also the younger fans back then (like younger comic fans) cared about the main cast. Noone was "I sure hope Ensign What's His Name and Nurse Who's That Girl survive!"
Latter on the series did subvert that, showing that The Dead Have Names.
As much as I love the X Men movies, there were no stakes. It was an action movie and we were there to see the SFX and Wolvie shnkt! bad guys.
I like the direction most of the MCU movies have taken.
Didn't like the first Captain America movie...Cap was such a Mary Sue I gave away the DVD, ditto the Thor movies. Fun for kiddies, not fun for those old enough to drink and vote. The Winter Solider was silly to me: political spy thriller and crackpot conspiracy storyline (cribbed from the X-files) don't mix well with the MCU (thankfully Hydra wasn't all powerful).
But Iron Man is a textbook example of how to do it right (until Marvel pissed off the director). The Avengers movies are fun popcorn movies. I'll catch the TV series later. I was in the military for a few years and watching regular TV isn't my thing anymore (unless it's HGTV).
Civil War was what The Winter Soldier should have been: enough politics to raise the stakes, but enough fun and sfx to be enjoyable.
I have a special place in my heart for Sam Rami's Spiderman, but Tom Holland did Peper Parker very well. He even sounds like what Paker would IRL.
edited 11th May '16 11:52:35 PM by TairaMai
I tried to walk like an Egyptian and now I need to see a Cairo practor....It was an old helicarrier. Fury said he got it out of mothballs.
Actually it was probably the old helicarrier, from the first Avengers. Damaged but never destroyed.
edited 11th May '16 11:40:05 PM by Bocaj
Forever liveblogging the AvengersAs someone who is old enough to do both of those things I can tell you that you are factually wrong about Captain America.
In fact about most of those.
Your opinions are bad and you should feel bad.
My various fanfics.![]()
Even them Shield was done and Nick when into hiding...and the in this movie he show off in a big helicarrier liek it was nothing, without Agent of Shield it take MASSIVE fanwank to see how the hell he got back, also it weaknest the winter soldier ending as it show he didnt suffer any setback at all, Hydra ripped shield from the inside and...that it, one movie latter the got back to be funny goons and Nick show with another Helicarrier who show in the exact moment....ughhhh
Well, imagine the greatest guy on the world but with superpowers. A Paragon loser who almost seems like the Chosen One for the super soldier serum. Almost nobody in the enemy's side is nearly as strong and skillful as he is, and the only one that is spends most of the time avoiding him. Every mission he is in is a success. He singlehandedly turned the tables around. And on the last fight not only the main villain keeps running away, but when they actually fight there's no point where you say "shit, the guy with the crimson cranium is more than a match to him".
Yeah, while I like him The First Avenger made Cap look op as fuck.
edited 12th May '16 12:30:00 AM by ExplosiveLion
I didn't mind Ultron snarking in general, but he did it a little too much, and I felt like much of the movie, he veered too far into generic territory in the end. Like, if his major thing is Daddy Issues, shouldn't he at least have a snark off with Daddy somewhere? And why was he worried about Wanda dying after he had just killed Quicksilver without any apparent regret? His writing was all over the place.
First Avenger didn't interest me much, but for the type of film it is, Steve being sort of a Mary Sue kinda made sense to me? I mean, all the characters are very static in that movie, and resemble types more than people. Bucky mainly registers because at that time, Sebastian Stan never played nice dudes, Zola gets a dimension in hindsight due to Winter Soldier, both Peggy and Howard get way more fleshed out in Agent Carter, and despite being Hugo Weaving, Red Skull mostly stands out because he has... well, a red skull. Meanwhile, Steve is painted more realistically in his sequels, while the Avengers movies both make fun of him to varying degrees.
edited 12th May '16 1:03:22 AM by hollygoolightly

I disagree.
Even though it was a joking line, Black Widow talking about 'where else could you get a view like this' was basically her acknowledging that as the situation was, she was likely to die up on the floating city.
Forever liveblogging the Avengers