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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

thatindiantroper Since: Feb, 2015
#56676: May 11th 2016 at 9:24:07 AM

[up] No I want her origin to be comics accurate.

MousaThe14 Writer, Artist, Ignored from Northern Virginia Since: Jan, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Writer, Artist, Ignored
#56677: May 11th 2016 at 9:26:50 AM

Not everything has to be comics accurate.

The Guardians were re-made to be movie accurate for gods sakes.

The Blog The Art
thatindiantroper Since: Feb, 2015
#56678: May 11th 2016 at 9:43:44 AM

[up] Yeah and I'm not thrilled. She has to be Bruce's cousin.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#56679: May 11th 2016 at 9:51:33 AM

I can see both points. There has to be a balance between acceptable changes, and keeping the characters somewhat close to how they are portrayed in the comics, otherwise they become In Name Only.

That being said, the latter can work pretty well.

Zemo proves that extremely well.

One Strip! One Strip!
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#56680: May 11th 2016 at 9:53:07 AM

If the Avengers need a lawyer, why not just call a certain blind Catholic chap from Hell's Kitchen?

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
stingerbrg Since: Jun, 2009
#56681: May 11th 2016 at 10:02:50 AM

Because he's too busy fighting ninjas.

MousaThe14 Writer, Artist, Ignored from Northern Virginia Since: Jan, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Writer, Artist, Ignored
#56682: May 11th 2016 at 10:04:02 AM

[up][up]I already made the joke as to why not.

@Indiantroper, Fair enough. I didn't care for it either. I was making the point that changes can and sometimes will happen.

Whether those changes are good or bad, well...

edited 11th May '16 10:04:12 AM by MousaThe14

The Blog The Art
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#56683: May 11th 2016 at 10:04:19 AM

Oh right, he's knee deep in villains that set Asians back a thousand years.

Any other lawyers? Ain't there that one chick from Jessica Jones who's played by Trinity from The Matrix?

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
hollygoolightly Since: Apr, 2012 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#56684: May 11th 2016 at 10:07:28 AM

Jeri Hogarth. Given her general morals, Steve would have issues with her.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#56685: May 11th 2016 at 10:07:54 AM

The deal with Universal is apparently that Universal has the right to distribute any Hulk titled film.

So Marvel can use Hulk and Hulk named characters in movies but the word Hulk cannot be in the title.

Hence Hulk in Avengers 1+2 and Thor: RAGNAROK

So they could use She-Hulk if she's not in the title. Not sure how this would affect a netflix series, for example, but She-Hulk is slightly not reasonable to do on a netflix budget.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#56686: May 11th 2016 at 10:13:11 AM

[up][up][up]Carrie Anne-Moss. Why do I know that?

Anywho, Tony also insisted on making everyone's decisions for them. The only people he actually gave a choice on anything to were his best friend Rhodes and the guy he built, Vision. He assumes Clint wouldn't want to come out of retirement then blames him for not thinking about his own family and choosing the wrong side. He puts Wanda under house arrest for the type of shit he does all the time, then tells Cap that she didn't want to leave (interning Wanda was the final straw for Cap being anti-accords, as at that point he knew he couldn't trust them to make humane decisions). He once again shifts the blame for destruction to his opponents, specifically in blowing up an airport basically because he "lost patience". He also presented the accords to the team when they were pretty much done and he had already made up his mind in favor. So really, the two major sides that look least like assholes to me are Thunderbolt Ross being a surprisingly Reasonable Authority Figure, and Black Panther for his third act turnaround that would've come earlier if he had more information.

edited 11th May '16 10:13:48 AM by wanderlustwarrior

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#56687: May 11th 2016 at 10:14:15 AM

I wish they could introduce She-Hulk for Infinity War or something.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#56688: May 11th 2016 at 10:16:42 AM

Ross imprisoned former heroes (Criminals yes, but still people who'd saved lives) in some rather draconian prisons, and totally ignored new evidence that Tony presented. Not sure I'd call him reasonable. He also cherry picked what stuff to talk about when he brought up the problems caused by heroes (like the shit he caused).

One Strip! One Strip!
MousaThe14 Writer, Artist, Ignored from Northern Virginia Since: Jan, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Writer, Artist, Ignored
#56689: May 11th 2016 at 10:21:17 AM

He didn't assume Clint didn't want to come out of retirement, as I recall from seeing the film last night he was telling them what Clint told him.

And Wanda is under house arrest because they didn't want to have her deported. The US government is not obligated to hold on to refugees, especially ones with supernatural powers. If he didn't keep her somewhere she would be out on her own with nothing.

edited 11th May '16 10:23:04 AM by MousaThe14

The Blog The Art
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#56690: May 11th 2016 at 10:24:42 AM

[up][up][up]Legally, there's nothing stopping She-Hulk from showing up. As was explained, the issues with Universal mean it's hard to make a solo film, not have the characters show up in other places.

Wow. This rights issues bullshit is really killing them... Well, ok, not really but still. How can Hulk not have any solo films when he had one back in 2008?

Marvel Studios was in a very different spot in 2008 and were more willing to compromise and work with Universal. With their universe becoming a smash hit and the Hulk underperforming, they probably don't see the need to play nice with Universal anymore.

In general Marvel got far less diplomatic with the other studios as time went on.

edited 11th May '16 10:25:28 AM by comicwriter

Galadriel Since: Feb, 2015
#56691: May 11th 2016 at 10:27:12 AM

[up][up]...The US government, and any other government, is obligated to hold onto refugees. That's what refugee status means - that you aren't allowed to deport them back to where they came from because it would be unsafe.

At any rate, we have no reason to believe that was Tony's reason for not letting her leave, because no one stated that to her. When Vision wasn't letting her go out to buy groceries, it would have been very easy for him to say, "We don't think you should leave, because if you're noticed there's a danger the US government will deport you," if that was the case. That's not the argument he made.

edited 11th May '16 10:50:25 AM by Galadriel

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#56692: May 11th 2016 at 10:30:46 AM

Stark was basically using the Avengers compound like an Embassy while the international legal status of the Avengers were being hashed out. If Wanda left, she would be illegally present in American borders and the country would be within its rights to demand her removal. But inside the borders of the compound whose legal status is still in debate, she's safe from the political ramifications of her involvement.

Also, important note: she was fine with it. She didn't argue with Vision on the matter and she refused to go with Hawkeye when he showed up to break her out. She didn't want to leave and only helped him because he was losing the hopeless fight with Vision. Left to her own devices, she would have remained where she was and probably signed the Accords once the conversation came around to her.

Cap didn't give Clint all the information about Wanda's situation when he sent him to "rescue" her, presumably because he didn't have it; he was going entirely off an offhand statement by Stark that she was confined to the compound and was too busy flying off the handle to actually clarify.

[up] Stark said it. "She's not a U.S. citizen and they don't give visas to weapons of mass destruction!"

edited 11th May '16 10:32:24 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#56693: May 11th 2016 at 10:31:47 AM

As for Clint, I just saw the movie a second time yesterday too. He clearly explains that he was bored with retirement, and while he's disappointing his kids on not going on that trip with them, it's the right thing to do. He wasn't dragged out of retirement by Cap as Tony suggests.

[up]Well that's just straight up false. She was conflicted, but not fine with it. She was already left to her own devices and chose to not sign the accords, same as Cap and Sam.

You are just reading so much into this movie that wasn't even there. A conversation between Cap and Clint that we know went the other direction?

edited 11th May '16 10:34:24 AM by wanderlustwarrior

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#56694: May 11th 2016 at 10:32:55 AM

He was being flippant. He does that.

He did say it was the right thing to do but he was also clearly under the impression that Wanda was being imprisoned against her will, which was provably false.

EDIT: At no point does she give any impression of being discontent with the arrangement. She outright refuses to leave with Clint and only steps in because he's getting his ass kicked by Vision. She's on Cap's side because of nepotism towards Clint, not because she believes in his cause.

edited 11th May '16 10:35:18 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#56695: May 11th 2016 at 10:38:00 AM

You know that we have a spoiler threat for this stuff, right?

MapleSamurai Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#56696: May 11th 2016 at 10:47:20 AM

[up]Thank you! I was beginning to consider leaving this thread until I finally see the movie.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#56697: May 11th 2016 at 10:49:57 AM

Also I think Marvel is happy getting mileage out of the Hulk as an ensemble character right now. Feige said there's basically two groups of Avengers: Those who they view as independent enough to have their own movies outside of the Avengers (Iron Man, Captain America, Thor, and now Ant-Man, Black Panther, Spider-Man and Captain Marvel) and those who they think work better in an ensemble capacity (Hulk, War Machine, Black Widow, Hawkeye, Falcon, Scarlet Witch, Quicksilver and Vision).

You can still do a lot of stuff with the Hulk without needing to give him his own movie. By the time of IW Part 2 that'll be what, 6 movies he's been in?

Galadriel Since: Feb, 2015
#56698: May 11th 2016 at 10:50:57 AM

Sorry! Really sorry! I keep reading this thread and the spoiler thread so much that sometimes I loose track of which is which. I will be more careful in future.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#56699: May 11th 2016 at 10:59:03 AM

Marvel more or less tricked Universal. But, honestly, the Hulk works the best with other characters anyway. No-one wants to spend a lot of time with mopey Bruce Banner alone, and it is hard to add action beats when every single one of the involves a giant rage monster. That gets boring very fast.

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#56700: May 11th 2016 at 11:03:20 AM

And yet I really liked the Edward Norton Hulk film. They had a monster movie action sequence, an ambush action sequence, and a brawl, and it all seemed interesting. More so than Avengers' Hulk's "jump from building to building, causing as much collateral damage as possible" smash.

I honestly don't even remember Hulk in the Sokovia battle. I remember something everyone else did, with Thor and Quicksilver having the best showings.


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