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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#56601: May 10th 2016 at 3:05:05 PM

That is a good question of how a blood sample could exist given how Agent Carter seemed to go out of its way to joss this possibility. I mean I know the movies aren't always in continuity with the shows (or at all if the show is AOS), but Agent Carter has a fairly strong connection to the MCU.

It's kind of comparable to Ultron being Killed Off for Real in that comics logic says that of course Ultron will come back, just as it would say that somehow someone would get their hands on Steve's blood, but the presentation appeared to explicitly rule that out, if that makes sense.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#56602: May 10th 2016 at 3:05:24 PM

I was hoping for a rescued Trevor Slattery in one of the cells.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#56603: May 10th 2016 at 3:13:06 PM

[up][up]I figure that Howard just got the closest to replicating the serum itself after all these years, despite not having the blood sample.

And for all we know, maybe the new serum works perfectly. It's just that "good becomes great, bad becomes worse", and those Russian would-be-assassins didn't seem like the most honorable of folks.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#56604: May 10th 2016 at 3:24:19 PM

[up]

Makes sense.

the formula is as much about who gets it as it is how it's done. In fact, are we sure the version Blonsky used was even flawed? With what we've learned about how the formula works, it's entirely possible that it's doing exactly what it's supposed to do.

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Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#56605: May 10th 2016 at 3:31:32 PM

I just figured it was a more advanced version of Zola's formula that he used on Bucky. Proto-SHIELD did have Zola.

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Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#56606: May 10th 2016 at 3:33:02 PM

In fact, are we sure the version Blonsky used was even flawed?

There was a brief shot of him noticing his spine growing in the mirror, before he made Samuel Stern give him Hulk blood.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#56607: May 10th 2016 at 3:34:05 PM

It occurs that the Erskine formula, while good for making a Captain America, is a pretty shitty super soldier serum from a military standpoint.

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AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#56608: May 10th 2016 at 3:34:21 PM

Yeah, it made his body kinda deform.

Speaking of Zola, I have a question: how come he acts so different in First Avenger than he does in Winter Soldier?

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Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#56609: May 10th 2016 at 3:34:59 PM

Decades and having his soul turned into a computer?

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AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#56610: May 10th 2016 at 3:37:29 PM

I mean, he acts like he's only working for Red Skull because he's afraid, but in Winter Soldier he's a sadistic Mengele type who rebuilt Hydra and turned Bucky in the Winter Soldier.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#56611: May 10th 2016 at 3:43:41 PM

I asked this a few years ago in a review and it was discussed here in the folder "How did Zola get so evil?"

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#56612: May 10th 2016 at 3:45:01 PM

Not sure why Hammer or Batroc would be on the Raft. Neither of them are dangerous superhumans.

The only surviving supervillain in the MCU who'd make sense to be in there is Abomination, and he'd need a special cell rather than the ones we see.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#56613: May 10th 2016 at 3:50:15 PM

Abomination is on some cryo-freeze thing, I think.

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dRoy Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar from Most likely from my study Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just high on the world
Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar
#56614: May 10th 2016 at 4:13:07 PM

Whatever Chris Evans doing right now. [lol]

Continuously reading, studying, and (hopefully) growing.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#56615: May 10th 2016 at 4:15:27 PM

There was a brief shot of him noticing his spine growing in the mirror, before he made Samuel Stern give him Hulk blood.

Doesn't mean it's an imperfect copy. The original serum deformed Schmidt's face and caused super-roided Rogers's body. It does mutate the recipient's physique.

I've been under the impression that the serum isn't the problem with replacing Captain America. The problem is what Erskine said: whatever you are, you become more. That's exactly what happened to Blonsky. It's what happened to the Winter Soldiers. More often than not, it's not going to mean you get a virtuous superhero ready to defend peace and justice.

In essence, the problem is that the serum doesn't work for what the Army wants it to do.

edited 10th May '16 4:15:58 PM by TobiasDrake

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Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#56616: May 10th 2016 at 4:17:48 PM

Doesn't mean it's an imperfect copy. The original serum deformed Schmidt's face and caused super-roided Rogers's body. It does mutate the recipient's physique.

Erskine mentioned the serum was incomplete when Schmidt took it, before he described how it also affects behavior.

MedusaStone Since: Jan, 2015
#56617: May 10th 2016 at 4:34:18 PM

When you all put it that way, the Serum actually seems a lot like drinking from Circe's cup; what you are inside is what you'll become outside.

And nobody trying to recreate the serum wants to hear that. They want something with predictable, recreate-able results that they can mass-produce, not some mystical potion that has custom results for everyone exposed to it. Although... since the MCU is bringing actual magic (as apposed to sufficiently advanced science) in with Dr. Strange, what if there actually was a mystical component to Erskine's formula?

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#56618: May 10th 2016 at 4:36:32 PM

In essence, the problem is that the serum doesn't work for what the Army wants it to do.

Yeah, my thoughts exactly

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Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#56619: May 10th 2016 at 4:41:29 PM

Although... since the MCU is bringing actual magic (as apposed to sufficiently advanced science) in with Dr. Strange, what if there actually was a mystical component to Erskine's formula?

I like to think it was developed from the "heart herb" grown in Wakanda for Black Panthers, and then that goes into another headcanon about the Hulk and photosynthesis, but this is all just my theory.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#56620: May 10th 2016 at 4:42:46 PM

It's like the Portal Gun. It's an amazing piece of science that creates wonders when used, but it absolutely fails at what it was designed to do.

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Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#56621: May 10th 2016 at 4:46:23 PM

Given how much of a powerhouse Captain America is against entire armies, the military shouldn't have been so pushy with Erskine's pleas. Sure, his demands for candidates were very stringent, but even a small team of Boy Scouts-turned-supersoldiers could've made far more of an impact in battle than a horde of maniac psychopaths who'd probably kill off each other.

edited 10th May '16 5:00:00 PM by Tuckerscreator

stingerbrg Since: Jun, 2009
#56622: May 10th 2016 at 4:54:51 PM

Not sure why Hammer or Batroc would be on the Raft. Neither of them are dangerous superhumans.

Well, without their gear, neither are Hawkeye, Falcon, or Ant-man.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#56623: May 10th 2016 at 5:00:00 PM

I can sorta see logic behind the Raft prison. As a U.N.-based entity, the Avengers would need a facility to imprison the people they arrest while they wait for trial. But where do you put the prisoners of a multinational organization that owns no territory of its own? Getting a member state to agree to building a prison to house them would be a conversation that needs to take place at some point, but that takes time.

International waters is a good place to put the U.N.'s super-prison until they can get one or two of their states to agree to build one inside their borders, if they ever do.

edited 10th May '16 5:02:52 PM by TobiasDrake

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Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#56624: May 10th 2016 at 5:02:29 PM

I wonder if one day we'll get the Big House / "Ant Farm" prison, where supervillains are shrunk to ant-size to reduce their danger.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#56625: May 10th 2016 at 5:05:54 PM

That would involve Pym feeling cooperative

I don't think that happens with MCU Pym

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