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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#56401: May 6th 2016 at 5:18:11 PM

MCU mixes genres with superhero trappings. So why not just a James Bond movie starring Black Widow?

She's got to be the most well known spy in the world by this point.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#56402: May 6th 2016 at 5:21:39 PM

"Most well known spy" really sounds like an oxymoron.

There's definitely stories that could be told with her as the protagonist. I just don't care as much.

LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#56403: May 6th 2016 at 5:21:56 PM

[up][up]Generally, if you're a well known spy, you're a pretty crappy one.

edited 6th May '16 5:22:08 PM by LordVatek

This song needs more love.
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#56404: May 6th 2016 at 5:24:22 PM

[up][up][up]But something it feel like spin off, antman have the feel it belong in phase 1 or phase 2 in how disconect it feel from everything

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#56405: May 6th 2016 at 5:29:09 PM

[up][up] That could be an aspect of the movie.

How does Black Widow do the Black Widow thing when everyone knows who Black Widow is thanks to the events of Winter Soldier and her serving with the Avengers and yeah probably Civil War haven't seen it yet.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#56406: May 6th 2016 at 5:36:08 PM

[up]I'm game. They could probably work out something with that face-changer thing from Winter Soldier if it became an issue.

This song needs more love.
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#56407: May 6th 2016 at 5:36:50 PM

Actually there is a question a movie can do about Black widow, you see smething that it repeat about her is that she follow the person with moral ground(or so she see) Hydra,Shield,Cap and Tony...but now all that is gone, she dosent have anyone to back up and now is on her own...can she know what is right and wrong?

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#56408: May 6th 2016 at 5:38:05 PM

Moral ambiguity is an important part of spy stories.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
hollygoolightly Since: Apr, 2012 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#56409: May 6th 2016 at 5:44:06 PM

A Black Widow movie could also be a way to use Nick Fury in a bigger role. I was quite intrigued by their relationship in Winter Soldier. And Sharon Carter could also show up. We've talked about using her in a capacity that isn't necessarily tied to Steve, and a spy thriller would be a really good opportunity.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#56410: May 6th 2016 at 5:48:57 PM

Yeah, Sharon would actually make a pretty good backup since she sorely needs a source of development apart from Satellite Love Interest. Anyway back to the Ant-Man comparison that's a good point. Ant-Man was a lot lower-stakes and cheaper to make than AOU but it happens to be one of my faves in the whole MCU, and a good way to wind down before Civil War. A Black Widow solo movie would make for a solid opening to Phase 4 or to clean up possible loose ends of Infinity War and the possible impact of whatever Thanos was doing on Earth and its governments/intellgence agencies.

Falrinn Since: Dec, 2014
#56411: May 6th 2016 at 6:04:50 PM

Another supporting character that might work out in a Black Widow movie is actually Hope van Dyme since she'll officially be The Wasp by then. Shrinking powers have a lot of espionage potential and showing up in a movie without Ant-Man would go a long way to establishing her as a hero in her own right.

If a more comics-accurate AIM is the antagonist there wouldn't be any potential issues with tone, and as long as they cross paths in Infinity War it's easy to explain how they get in contact with each other.

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#56412: May 6th 2016 at 6:10:52 PM

A Black Widow film would be great way to keep the Captain America extended cast active. Bucky, Sam, Sharon, Nick and Maria.

I'd like Rhodey there too, but I guess he would be a better fit as a Captain Marvel supporting cast member.

On the topic of orphaned supporting cast, I wander where Pepper Potts could turn up next, I'd hate not to see her again.

And the Warriors Three and Sif seem destined to obscurity once the Thor films end, though I expect them to turn up in infinity war.

higherbrainpattern Since: Apr, 2012
#56413: May 6th 2016 at 6:39:57 PM

Yeah, I'd love a Black Widow movie made by the Russos.

Also, just came back from seeing Civil War. Loved it.

#TonyStank

ExplosiveLion Since: Mar, 2016 Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
#56414: May 6th 2016 at 7:41:56 PM

[up][up][up]

So a MCU Femme Fatale film? That's... not a bad idea at all.

I'd wait until I've seen Wasp as a member of the Avengers and her interactions with the rest of the team (mainly Widow, and maybe Sharon/Maria) to see if she would work in such film. If she does I hope she keeps her bitchy attitude, it'd make a good contrast with Nat's snarky yet warm personality.

And if Sharon and Maria get in the film it would be amazing to have a fight scene with Nat, Sharon and Maria fighting against either a shitload of mooks or a Cap-level enemy. I really liked Nat and Sharon's dynamics when fighting against Bucky, and was a little bit disappointed that it was as short as it was. Also, I just love when movie villains don't treat women as fragile beings; the way Bucky threw Sharon against that table and how she took the hit was beautiful.

One other thing: I don't know if anyone has mentioned this, but I wouldn't put Wanda in this movie. I don't think her character arc nor her powerset would really work in a spy superhero-thriller.

edited 6th May '16 7:43:34 PM by ExplosiveLion

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#56415: May 6th 2016 at 8:14:39 PM

Putting all the girls together in a single movie might send a weird message too, when female characters should be able to stand on their own, no more or less different from the male characters. Not every female character has to be friends with every other female character, just like not all black characters are friends with each other either.

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#56416: May 6th 2016 at 8:15:29 PM

Ok, it seen people want an all women team....intersting.

Anyway, I saw Iron man 1 again and....is weird, it feel very low key, without flashy fights and without a huge soundtrack around, Tony is arrogant but not quipy(damn Wheedon) and Obiadiah raise the point that Tony maybe have some PTDS after his time in the cave, that SOMETHING happen to him after that.

Also the whole thing It feel like a sci fiction movie, with much time devote to armour, it feel less like a comic book where the element is just there to explain a chararter super power, that gave it a unique touch I really like

In general is a very good movie and I can see why it start the MCU as whole

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#56417: May 6th 2016 at 8:35:29 PM

Just got back from Civil War. Holy shit that was good. Gotta say, Black Panther, Spider-Man, and Ant-Man/Giant Man really stole the show.

"Whoooaaa, something just went inside of me!"

Also, Tony Stank.


RE: Black Widow: I can go either way on a solo Black Widow film. I certainly would go see it and probably love it, but I don't feel like she needs one either; like Hawkeye, her recurring roles in other people's films kinda feels like a "Black Widow movie" stretched out over them, and I feel she works best when the audience doesn't know everything she's up to, which is tough as a lead protagonist.

I think she was at her weakest in Age of Ultron, partly because we were privy to everything she did, felt, and thought, which made her feel less like a master spy and more like a Badass Normal amongst superheroes and Badasser-Normals. In Winter Soldier, Civil War, Avengers, and even Iron Man 2, she's constantly surprising us by going off-camera for extended periods of time only to come back and pull some stunt that reminds us why she's the famed Black Widow.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Wackd Since: May, 2009
#56418: May 6th 2016 at 8:43:33 PM

Putting all the girls together in a single movie might send a weird message too, when female characters should be able to stand on their own, no more or less different from the male characters. Not every female character has to be friends with every other female character, just like not all black characters are friends with each other either.
See, I get the opposite impression—doing shit like surrounding Peggy with Jarvis and Sousa and Anderson and a kajillion other dudes, with like one lady friend and one lady villain, sends the message that female characters can't stand on their own, that no one will watch a thing with female leads unless there's a crowd of dudes around them. I am, admittedly, not equipped at the moment to do any sort of holistic survey, but when Ghostbusters is the third action film of feminist Paul Feig, who recently put a gender parity casting requirement in his contract for all future directing jobs, and it's the first one with more than two ladies as protagonists, there's a problem.

edited 6th May '16 8:46:07 PM by Wackd

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#56419: May 6th 2016 at 8:52:29 PM

Having a lot of women who would be expected to know each other, like Black Widow, Maria Hill, and Sharon Carter (who were all shown talking about or to each other in TWS) work together is one thing. Having all of them in the same movie together, A-Force style, is another. Not to sound like I'm knocking on A-Force though.

edited 6th May '16 8:55:20 PM by AlleyOop

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#56420: May 6th 2016 at 9:04:10 PM

My issue is that it sound more like "Let have all the girl in one place because is girl time!!!" like because the male chararter are not there, them let put them in the same movie!....it make not sense

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#56421: May 6th 2016 at 9:11:05 PM

Honestly I don't think viability would be a problem. Scarjo is one of the biggest stars on the planet and has proven she can open an action movie (even a stinker like Lucy). Marvel is so trusted as a brand that they could sell a movie about just about any character.

wehrmacht belongs to the hurricane from the garden of everything Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
belongs to the hurricane
#56422: May 6th 2016 at 9:13:49 PM

Basically after Winter Soldier I like Black Widow enough that I would watch a movie about her provided the team behind it was good, and a spy movie isn't something we've gotten in the MCU until now so it's relatively new ground.

It also does not prevent other female characters from getting films and if anything its success might signal to studios that female-led superhero films are viable (Wonder Woman might do that beforehand but the jury is still out on that one).

dRoy Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar from Most likely from my study Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just high on the world
Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar
#56423: May 6th 2016 at 9:42:52 PM

Civil War vs BVS in nutshell. evil grin

Continuously reading, studying, and (hopefully) growing.
Wackd Since: May, 2009
#56424: May 6th 2016 at 10:38:47 PM

Having a lot of women who would be expected to know each other, like Black Widow, Maria Hill, and Sharon Carter (who were all shown talking about or to each other in TWS) work together is one thing. Having all of them in the same movie together, A-Force style, is another.
I mean, I don't see why that would be a problem, but if it is, I'm wondering what you'd say about establishing an entirely new supporting cast for Widow that also happened to be mostly women.

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#56425: May 6th 2016 at 11:06:35 PM

Actually, when I suggested a Spy movie with Black Widow, Maria Hill and Sharon Carter, I didn't do it because they are all females, but because they are all SPIES! The best spies in the MCU save for Nick Fury (who yes, could turn up too, but his character works the best when he suddenly drops in, I can't see him being the whole time around because he would constantly predict what the enemy plans to do and have a contingency plan for everything...that would go old fast) and some of the Agents of Shield (and there the best field agents all happen to be female, too, so there is that). That Maria Hill and Sharon Carter would get some well-deserved character development is just a bonus. Sharon really grew on me in the last movie, she feels, just like Peggy, like the heroine of another story, and I would really like to see something of this story.

And who says that they all have to be friends? They could, just like the Avengers, have their personal conflicts, but still work together professionally. Maybe even better than them because, again, trained Spies.

Granted, you could throw Clint in there, but he is not particularly stealthy, and kind of retired.

I considered the possibility of putting the Wasp or Ant-man in there, too, but I think it might be best idea to stick with more traditional spy-craft for this movie...cheaper, too.


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