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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#55626: Apr 19th 2016 at 8:02:02 AM

Within the show they appear, they are the only Asian characters. They did have one character affiliated with The Hand who was fleshed out and played in a sympathetic light, but they made him a white guy.

To their credit, Marvel is trying to diversify. It's just that their attempts at diversity look an awful lot like someone's white grandpa going, "I want to get my neighbor a present to let him know that we're cool. Now, he's black, so I'm thinking watermelon."

They mean well, they're just very confused by the concept of non-white people.

edited 19th Apr '16 8:02:27 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#55627: Apr 19th 2016 at 8:08:07 AM

We had three (Hogun, Helen Cho, and Jim Morita) in the movies, and two (Wong and Mantis) coming in the future. Did I miss anyone?

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#55628: Apr 19th 2016 at 8:16:58 AM

Mantis is an alien though, isn't she? An Asian actress is playing the role, which is great, but she's not exactly an Asian character.

edited 19th Apr '16 8:17:11 AM by KarkatTheDalek

Oh God! Natural light!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#55629: Apr 19th 2016 at 8:17:32 AM

If Hogun counts as Asian, so does Mantis.

DarthSion Statement: All meatbags must die from Slokovia Since: Mar, 2016 Relationship Status: All is for my lord
Statement: All meatbags must die
#55631: Apr 19th 2016 at 8:53:15 AM

Agents of shield also has Joey and Yoyo

Cut off one head 2 more shall take it's place! Hail Hydra
DarthSion Statement: All meatbags must die from Slokovia Since: Mar, 2016 Relationship Status: All is for my lord
Statement: All meatbags must die
#55633: Apr 19th 2016 at 8:57:24 AM

Yeeaaaah Steve and Tony are a bit close there

Cut off one head 2 more shall take it's place! Hail Hydra
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#55634: Apr 19th 2016 at 9:01:24 AM

Joey and Yoyo are not Asian, they a Latin American (I am still amused that they have a Columbian playing a Mexican and a Mexican playing a Columbian).

Either way, in the case of Skye (for those who have stopped watching the show and therefore missed all the good stuff), not only is the actress half-Asian, we meet both of the characters parents in the show so her status as half-Asian is official there, too, and she is now the most powerful character in it, since her true identity turned out to be Marvel character who is close to Avengers-level. If anyone wants to see positive Asian characters, Agents of Shield is the right place to look.

[up][up] That's a real low blow from Iron Man....

edited 19th Apr '16 9:03:43 AM by Swanpride

FictionWriterKing Since: Apr, 2016
#55636: Apr 19th 2016 at 9:43:58 AM

Tobis sympathy is not required all the time for characters, especially inherently evil ones. No one from The Hand warrants us to have compassion. Instead what the showrunners should have done was provide more insight into their ideology. I'm not going to feel any concern for The Hand when there's no evidence causing me to. But understanding them like a mind meld yeah that would help.

The group is reflective of its comic counterpart minus the Japanese history. Meanwhile, the comics never applied that history upon those it revolved around in the emotional sense. It's just information so and so would state. Snake Root clan disliked Samurai elites, therefore they along with others made Ninjutsu to fight back. They also let out Beast of the Hand, using its power for their own gain. Then the Hand was born years later out of samurai who wanted power back in the hands of the Japanese. Snake Root consumed them. Hydra got involved. Since then they did evil stuff. Question is how to adapt the central elements of that stuff. Key concept is the Hand always wanted power. So did Snake Root. No writer made either sympathetic on paper. But the extra information makes them more understanding, unlike live action. Individually the groups's members aren't distinctive. Generic mystical ninjas that were popular during the dark age.

edited 19th Apr '16 10:11:17 AM by FictionWriterKing

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#55637: Apr 19th 2016 at 9:45:45 AM

I just think its weird when we get insight into Fisk, the Russians, Owlsley, and the Punisher but the Hand and Madame Gao remain impenetrable.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Khfan429 Since: Aug, 2009
#55638: Apr 19th 2016 at 9:53:41 AM

To counter:

Fisk is one of Daredevil's greatest enemies, and it's clear he's going to be an overarching Big Bad for the entire show. Him being more in focus than anyone who works for him is just logical.

Punisher is as much a secondary protagonist as he is an antagonist, and could easily be spun-off into his own show, so I don't see where comparing his development to any of the others makes sense.

The Russians and Owlsley are dead, while Gao and the Hand are still active. They got more buildup because they needed it, their story is now over.

DeathsApprentice The Ultimate Lifeform from The Ark Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
The Ultimate Lifeform
#55639: Apr 19th 2016 at 9:54:19 AM

[up][up] Pretty much. The Asian villains in Daredevil are all rather one-dimensional and have very little in terms of personality that's more than "generic mystical Asians." Whereas Fisk, Owlsley, the Russians, even the Irish gangsters got some kind of personality development.

It definitely would have been nice if the Hand weren't so... boring. :/

Since we're on the topic, this article talks about the Whore of Color/White Virgin complex Daredevil had going on this season. I can see their point with Elektra and Karen, but I'm not sure what their point with Claire Temple is. What do you guys think?

edited 19th Apr '16 10:02:09 AM by DeathsApprentice

When we're done, there won't be anything left.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#55640: Apr 19th 2016 at 10:09:50 AM

[up][up] Its the trend thats the problem.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
FictionWriterKing Since: Apr, 2016
#55641: Apr 19th 2016 at 10:17:12 AM

Gao is obviously being left for Iron Fist. But she does have personality worth noting. If every person from the Heavenly Cities spoke like her and were as unflustered then she wouldn't stick out.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#55642: Apr 19th 2016 at 10:18:55 AM

It's not like the Hand story is done. I'm not a huge fan of how they were treated in season 2 but they're probably going to get more development in season 3.

edited 19th Apr '16 10:25:45 AM by Kostya

FictionWriterKing Since: Apr, 2016
#55643: Apr 19th 2016 at 10:21:24 AM

[up] the hand doesn't develop. They aren't written dynamically. Or should I say it. This neither bad or good. Just what it is. All we need to know is a bit more of their history or goal. Exposition my friend.

edited 19th Apr '16 10:23:33 AM by FictionWriterKing

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#55644: Apr 19th 2016 at 10:22:51 AM

I agree but people are acting like their story is done. It's not. Granted I don't think they should save all that for season 3 but I think it's clear they'll get more focus in that.

edited 19th Apr '16 10:23:12 AM by Kostya

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#55645: Apr 19th 2016 at 10:23:42 AM

Half of the season was focused on the Hand though.

Their plot is apparently on a reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeally slow burn.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
DeathsApprentice The Ultimate Lifeform from The Ark Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
The Ultimate Lifeform
#55646: Apr 19th 2016 at 10:24:31 AM

[up][up][up][up] You mean season 3, right? tongue

I still really wish they hadn't tried to put the Hand in season 2, and had saved that plot for season 3, when it would have been easier to develop them, since they'd have had a whole season, instead of half a season. :/

edited 19th Apr '16 10:25:08 AM by DeathsApprentice

When we're done, there won't be anything left.
FictionWriterKing Since: Apr, 2016
#55647: Apr 19th 2016 at 10:26:25 AM

The Hand were a smaller part, only appearing when Stick came to Matt about them or when Elektra was near Matt. Stick told Mat there's a war during season one and now Matt learned who those soldiers were indirectly. The Hand, an evil ninja cult, was out doing a bunch of stuff. We just weren't given what lot of reason behind that stuff despite how cool it looked. Yeah what is their culture like... so on would be interesting but there's nothing on screen causing me to care about that possibility. Instead it's their over arching goal. Black Sky. This was also a conflict for them, getting Elktra on their side.

edited 19th Apr '16 10:32:36 AM by FictionWriterKing

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#55648: Apr 19th 2016 at 10:26:57 AM

[up]to the article: Would I be remiss in assuming that one of the reasons for that dichotomy is this simple: paler skinned people blend in the daytime, and darker skinned people blend in at night? It's just matching lighter shades and darker shades with themselves. It's super racist to apply that kind of thinking to people, and there's more to it than that, but that feels like something that could be a thing.

edited 19th Apr '16 10:27:45 AM by PushoverMediaCritic

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#55649: Apr 19th 2016 at 10:27:29 AM

[up][up][up]No argument there. I think having one or two episodes about them near the end would have been fine. Giving us 9 when it's clear they aren't ready to reveal too much is a problem.

edited 19th Apr '16 10:28:07 AM by Kostya

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#55650: Apr 19th 2016 at 10:27:36 AM

It's not like the Hand story is done. I'm not a huge fan of how they were treated in season 2 but they're probably going to get more development in season 2.

Nobu won't.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.

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