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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#55526: Apr 18th 2016 at 7:31:02 AM

I think it's a pretty common surname.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#55527: Apr 18th 2016 at 7:32:18 AM

Mordo probably betrays him at the end of the film and then Wong becomes the new partner.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#55529: Apr 18th 2016 at 7:33:57 AM

Or maybe they think having only one white protagonist would scare away the white people.

edited 18th Apr '16 7:34:20 AM by Kostya

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#55530: Apr 18th 2016 at 7:37:48 AM

[up][up]I'm actually going to assume it was Ability over Appearance for Mordo since Chiwetel Ejiofor was coming off the massively acclaimed 12 Years a Slave.

edited 18th Apr '16 7:38:06 AM by comicwriter

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#55531: Apr 18th 2016 at 7:52:38 AM

I would say that they changed the script to Peter NOT giving up his blood because if he had, it had more or less made the first movie obsolete which was all about him learning to be responsible with his knowledge and abilities. That is one of the reasons I like The Amazing Spider-man movies better than the original trilogy, they don't have a reset button.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#55532: Apr 18th 2016 at 7:55:28 AM

The movies already shot the responsibility argument in the foot when they ended the first film with him explicitly ignoring Stacy's dying wish to stay away from Gwen to protect her.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#55533: Apr 18th 2016 at 7:58:11 AM

I actually like that Peter decided Gwen could make decisions for herself

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#55534: Apr 18th 2016 at 8:02:30 AM

And then her back got broke. Yay!

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#55535: Apr 18th 2016 at 8:11:34 AM

As the movie so rightly pointed out, it was not Peter's decision to make. It was Gwen's. She knew the risk, and he last act was to rescue thousands of people, because she had the courage to be there, despite Peter trying to keep her away.

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#55536: Apr 18th 2016 at 8:19:10 AM

Yeah, but that was HER decision. Her speech at the belong of the film is that she and her peers had their lives decided for them too much, and they should be able to take risks if they choose too. I really wish she hadn't died though, simply loosing he use of her legs would be sufficent.

Also, Peter LITERALLY did the research for Harry. That's why he found the lab. He discovers that the blood will mutate anyone not directly related to his farther. Of course he couldn't tell this exactly to Harry, but he puts all the effort he can into letting him know that the spider venom is not safe for him to use.

It, and the Electro stuff, was a breath of fresh air after the last Spider-Man 2 had Peter just ignoring Otto after their first fight until the very last possible moment.

I liked the subversion of "Villain Acts, Hero Reacts." Peter actually feels active and motivated in ASM 2. Which is part of the reason it's my favourite.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#55537: Apr 18th 2016 at 8:21:27 AM

It was a good movie. It had problems, but it was the best Spidey movie we've had yet.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#55538: Apr 18th 2016 at 8:23:53 AM

That Gwen's death was her fault actually made it more annoying, IMO. Don't get me wrong. Peter's still a massive fucking dumbass for his part in it, but it has the unfortunate side effect of basically proving that all Gwen's talk about how she belongs there and how Peter is a knuckle dragging caveman for trying to keep her away was completely wrong.

In the end, Peter's decision to keep her away (the first smart choice he ever makes, which even then he has to go back on) was basically proven to be completely correct. Which just goes back to my point about the movie's muddled message of responsibility. He makes the responsible, adult choice to prioritize Gwen's safety over his personal feelings, but then goes back on it and immediately gets her killed.

Yay!

edited 18th Apr '16 8:24:41 AM by comicwriter

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#55539: Apr 18th 2016 at 8:23:57 AM

The cohesion of ASM 2 is terrible, so it doesn't work so well as a whole, and the fridging was poop, but it gave me a lot of my favourite things about the franchise.

[up] I'm not so sure, considering the film makes it explicit that Electro would have killed Spidey if Gwen wasn't there, it makes her argument that if he is risking his life to save the city, she should be able to too.

I don't enjoy the film moving the goal posts so that her death comes from an unexpected Goblin, rather than the conflict she consented to.

Plus, they didn't have to kill her for it to work. If she became wheelchair bound then that's sufficent for the same emotional beat at the end of the film.

edited 18th Apr '16 8:27:39 AM by Whowho

wehrmacht belongs to the hurricane from the garden of everything Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
belongs to the hurricane
#55540: Apr 18th 2016 at 8:26:37 AM

The movies already shot the responsibility argument in the foot when they ended the first film with him explicitly ignoring Stacy's dying wish to stay away from Gwen to protect her.

This is basically the only argument that matters to me when it comes to talking about Peter in the ASM movies.

Regardless of how you justify it, not keeping his promise to the man who died trying to help him was a dick move that proved Peter learned jack squat, and that's really all there is to it in my opinion. How unlikable he was and how the film doesn't properly address that or treat it in the correct fashion is the big reason why I disliked ASM. It's one of several stories that majorly turned me off from the character.

edited 18th Apr '16 8:29:23 AM by wehrmacht

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#55541: Apr 18th 2016 at 8:28:12 AM

And then in the sequel we see that he changed his mind and is wracked with guilt over letting him die.

wehrmacht belongs to the hurricane from the garden of everything Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
belongs to the hurricane
#55542: Apr 18th 2016 at 8:30:17 AM

That's an Author's Saving Throw that doesn't really do anything to fix how Peter breaking his promise was treated as this sweet "THEY'LL STILL BE TOGETHER BY THE END DON'T WORRY" in the first film. It's of course much better than nothing, but the point still stands.

edited 18th Apr '16 8:31:14 AM by wehrmacht

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#55543: Apr 18th 2016 at 8:31:03 AM

It was a dickish thing for Captain Stacey to ask. What Gwen wanted wasn't even a factor.

I like that 2 addressed this by having Peter tell Gwen the promise, and then together they discuss how they're going to react to it.

Really, the promise should never have been written in the first place.

Yeah, looking at it, 2 spends a lot of time trying to struggle out of the restrictive writing of the first film. The promise and the birth parents plot.

edited 18th Apr '16 8:33:50 AM by Whowho

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#55544: Apr 18th 2016 at 8:32:47 AM

Double post .

edited 18th Apr '16 8:33:18 AM by Whowho

wehrmacht belongs to the hurricane from the garden of everything Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
belongs to the hurricane
#55545: Apr 18th 2016 at 8:33:34 AM

Not writing the promise into the story at all, or changing it to "Keep Gwen safe please" would have worked a lot better, that much I agree on.

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#55546: Apr 18th 2016 at 8:34:55 AM

The amazing film are almost so perfect, it's frustrating seeing the scripts struggle against themselves.

wehrmacht belongs to the hurricane from the garden of everything Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
belongs to the hurricane
#55547: Apr 18th 2016 at 8:36:15 AM

I wouldn't classify the first film as anywhere near perfect, but I think I've made my opinion on that franchise quite clear at this point. I don't have that much else to add.

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#55549: Apr 18th 2016 at 8:42:09 AM

It would be if the playing field were even, but it's not.

Thank you so much for sharing that link because it is a perfect visual demonstration of the issue.

Regarding Tibet

Here's my question: is it possible and financially feasible to film in Tibet? If China controls the region so thoroughly, I can't imagine they would allow a studio to shoot a movie there without having a great degree of control over the process.

I'm not disputing the fact that China is an important market for Hollywood, but I wonder if the reason they're shooting in Nepal might be because Tibet simply isn't an option at all. I don't know much about the Tibet situation, but if China's as oppressive to them as I've heard, why would they let a bunch of Americans come shoot a blockbuster film in the middle of the genocide?

I'm actually going to assume it was Ability over Appearance for Mordo since Chiwetel Ejiofor was coming off the massively acclaimed 12 Years a Slave.

And he was fantastic in Serenity. He's half of the reason the film is the big Fantasy Versus match fans never knew they wanted: Sherlock Holmes dueling the Operative in a battle of intellect and willpower? F*ck yes.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#55550: Apr 18th 2016 at 8:46:28 AM

I think the problem isn't that it's not being shot in Tibet, but that it isn't being set in Tibet.

edited 18th Apr '16 8:47:12 AM by PushoverMediaCritic


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