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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

edvedd Darling. from At the boutique, dear. Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
Darling.
#55501: Apr 17th 2016 at 10:22:01 PM

Oh come now, how many times has that shield gotten a bit busted up. tongue

Visit my Tumblr! I may say things. The Bureau Project
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#55502: Apr 17th 2016 at 10:39:31 PM

Crossposting from the Film Diversity thread but Marvel seems to be actively erasing Tibet from the Doctor Strange movie to appeal to the PRC, and the decision to cast Swinton may be a miscalculated aspect of this:

http://ihatemcu.tumblr.com/post/139951577165/if-you-didnt-get-the-hint-i-really-really-hate
http://www.themarysue.com/marvel-doctor-strange-leaving-tibet-behind/

KingNomarch Since: Oct, 2015
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#55504: Apr 17th 2016 at 11:11:36 PM

I guess they're going to replace all the Chevy cars with Audis this time around?

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#55505: Apr 17th 2016 at 11:12:57 PM

[up]x3 If Doctor Strange wanted to appeal to the Chinese film market, it could've done it by race-flipping their hero instead of its supporting cast...

edited 17th Apr '16 11:13:48 PM by Tuckerscreator

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#55506: Apr 17th 2016 at 11:30:03 PM

I'm split. Dr. Strange is one of my favorite superheroes and the movie looks awesome. However, I despise how Tilda might as well be wearing yellowface and how Tibet is being fucked over yet again, considering how evil China is being.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#55507: Apr 17th 2016 at 11:40:15 PM

I don't think that the shield itself has ever got scratched beforehand...the bullets aso just chipped up the paint, I don't think that they damaged the shield in itself.

Can't wait to see how Coulson reacts to Civil war.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#55508: Apr 18th 2016 at 12:08:14 AM

Here is the chase scene without the car commercial bits in-between:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMoWqe6hKgw

FoxBoxKid Philosophy Enthusiast from California Republic Since: Oct, 2013
Philosophy Enthusiast
#55509: Apr 18th 2016 at 1:33:46 AM

The Ancient One isn't the first example of racebending in the MCU. Nick Fury, Heimdall, Jasper Sitwell, Hogun, Elektra, Ben Urich, Blake Tower. All examples of racebending that have worked out fairly well. The Ancient One's ethnicity is arguably more integral to the character than the other examples, but praising the racebending of characters like Blake Tower and Ben Urich, while condemning that of the Ancient One is kind of a double standard. I understand that it can be more than a little irksome having a traditionally Tibetan character played by an Anglo actress. I'm a little irked myself and also kinda bemused.

Regarding the Tibet thing: Yeah, it sucks what they have to do to get the movie released in China, but let's face it, it's not like they were going to risk getting the movie Banned in China. Besides, the Ancient One's abode doesn't have to specifically be in Tibet. The Himalayas span across multiple national borders. Hell, in Doctor Strange's origin in Strange Tales #115, he finds the Ancient One in India.

I'm willing to look past all this because I don't want my enjoyment of an otherwise good movie to be brought down by thinking about such things.

Make mine Marvel.
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#55510: Apr 18th 2016 at 1:58:58 AM

I'm neutral on Blake Tower and Ben Urich being racelifted. If it was up to me I'd rather leave them as they are just because I think accuracy to the comics is generally a plus, but because their roles don't have a particularly strong visual component or involve any sort of stereotypes or ethnic markers it doesn't matter who plays them.

Also while yes the response to racelifting might be a double standard, when it comes to the bigger picture it's a corrective for the preexisting double standard that already exists in regards to the fact that castings disproportionately favor white actors as a whole. In a system where 80% of roles including plenty of "racially neutral" ones go to white actors, while all the nonwhite groups combined have to scramble for the remaining 20%, the loss of one white role to a nonwhite actor is much less harmful for their future job prospects than the loss of a nonwhite role to a white actor.

In the former case, yes it sucks and I'd rather they didn't but they have plenty, almost ten times as many other alternate roles to fall back on and audition for. In the case of the latter, and this goes especially so for Asian actors, that role is possibly their only shot at making it big for a long while unless they're willing to settle for bit parts. Individual changes might be a drop in the bucket but when one group lives on the riverbank and and everyone else lives in the desert they need all they can get.

[down] Also back when they were still making the Ultimate line, SLJ made Marvel promise that they would go to him first for casting in exchange for being able to use his likeness.

edited 18th Apr '16 2:31:18 AM by AlleyOop

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#55511: Apr 18th 2016 at 2:03:20 AM

Nick Fury isn't race-bending.

Nick Fury is also black and looks exactly like Samuel L Jackson in the ultimate comics.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#55512: Apr 18th 2016 at 2:04:21 AM

Knowing that there's at least one person from Tibet who loves Dr. Strange because of his origin taking place there and takes it really personally makes me sad, though. I know I'd take it personally if there was an awesome superhero from Arizona and the movie adaptation moved them to Nevada because something was politically unacceptable about them being from Arizona, and I don't even have the added baggage of being aggressively repressed by one of the most powerful countries on Earth.

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#55513: Apr 18th 2016 at 2:54:05 AM

Most of all I love how much it depicts Parker genuinely caring and putting time and effort into bettering the lives of his friends, family, enermies and fellow New Yorkers. It's what made his struggles and failures feel weighty, rather than previously where it just felt cosmically unfortunate.

Could you maybe list examples of this from the movie? I don't recall him doing anything more than standard superhero stuff

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#55514: Apr 18th 2016 at 4:15:51 AM

I reserve judgement for when I have actually seen Doctor Strange. After all, if they show off Tibetan Culture without clarifying what it is, but the movie is shown in China because of it, the audience might make the connection on its own and develop an appreciation for it. Which might do more good than the movie being banned in China altogether. It naturally depends on how the portrayal is handled overall.

Concerning Cloak and Dagger, Dagger's costume is far from being the most ridiculous thing which has turned up in comics. I am sure they will be able to put something together which still alludes to the dagger shape but looks like something a teen would actually wear.

edited 18th Apr '16 4:19:51 AM by Swanpride

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#55515: Apr 18th 2016 at 6:11:12 AM

The Ancient One's ethnicity is arguably more integral to the character than the other examples, but praising the racebending of characters like Blake Tower and Ben Urich, while condemning that of the Ancient One is kind of a double standard.

It would be if the playing field were even, but it's not.

Anyway:

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#55516: Apr 18th 2016 at 6:35:11 AM

[up]Emma Frost has had simply audacious costumes before. But that doesn't make Dagger's any less silly.

[up][up][up] Spider-Man helping a kid with his science project is my absolutely favourite part of any Spider-Man movie.

There's other stuff like Peter trying to figure out what's best for Gwen, rather than just trying to get the girl, like he did for three films. For the first time, characters in a Superhero movie broke up for a good reason.

Spider's first fight with Electro is my second favourite moment in the spidey film. He spends the entirety of it trying not to fight Electro, he tries talking him down, he tries comforting him, he then prioritises saving civilians from harm, and when he discovers he can't non lethally restrain him with webbing, he finds a different way.

And then, he doesn't forget about him! He does an extended science project trying to figure out how to Web up Electro safely.

And when his friend Harry says he's dying and needs Spider-Man's blood, Peter builds a massive wall of crazy trying to find his father's lab and research to find out if the cure is possible. And when he finds out it's not, he goes to Harry to apologise.

To me, Peter Parker's characterisation had never been better.

edited 18th Apr '16 6:38:21 AM by Whowho

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#55517: Apr 18th 2016 at 6:50:03 AM

An interesting note on the script for Civil War. So T'Challa's role was originally much smaller and Spider-Man was gonna have a bigger part, but when it looked like negotiations were falling through and Spider-Man wasn't gonna be available, they beefed up Panther's role significantly. So then by the time they did clear up the rights issues to get Spider-Man, they kept Panther's role in any way since it'd ballooned so much.

edited 18th Apr '16 6:50:13 AM by comicwriter

KingNomarch Since: Oct, 2015
#55518: Apr 18th 2016 at 7:08:17 AM

TV Spot #16

http://youtu.be/NOAIliS_Eug

edited 18th Apr '16 7:08:39 AM by KingNomarch

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#55519: Apr 18th 2016 at 7:19:14 AM

@Whowho The only time Peter tried to "get the girl" in the Raimi Trilogy was in the first film. In the second he backed off and they were dating by the third.

Raimi's Peter also talked Dr. Octavius into turning good at the end. An arguably more impressive feat given Ocvtavius was being influenced by his cyber arms. He also forgave the Sandman for killing Uncle Ben. Though maybe letting him go was not the wisest move.

Now the thing with ASM Harry. I really don't see how that was Peter being helpful. or even smart. He claims that Harry could die or be mutated from his blood but refuses to give him a sample to test it out.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#55520: Apr 18th 2016 at 7:22:29 AM

Which is particularly baffling because in the original script he did give Harry the blood to find a cure, except the blood ended up mutating him and transforming him into the Goblin.

I'm not sure why they dropped that in favor of "Peter ignores his dying friend's plea to save his life."

edited 18th Apr '16 7:22:47 AM by comicwriter

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#55521: Apr 18th 2016 at 7:24:13 AM

On the topic of Doctor Strange: does anybody else see the irony in the filmmakers not only making an Asian character white, but making a white character black? Because I don't know about y'all, but I'm kind of excited to see Baron Mordo in this film.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
MousaThe14 Writer, Artist, Ignored from Northern Virginia Since: Jan, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Writer, Artist, Ignored
#55522: Apr 18th 2016 at 7:24:22 AM

[up][up]Because they wanted to see if it was possible to make an even worse movie. There was a whole betting pool and everything. I hear a grip made off with a nice million on the whole thing.

[up]I find it weird that of all the Asian characters they turn one of them white, one black, but they keep the manservant. Wong probably won't actually still be a manservant but still, weird.

edited 18th Apr '16 7:25:57 AM by MousaThe14

The Blog The Art
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#55523: Apr 18th 2016 at 7:26:42 AM

From what I understand, Wong will barely be in the film.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
MousaThe14 Writer, Artist, Ignored from Northern Virginia Since: Jan, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Writer, Artist, Ignored
#55524: Apr 18th 2016 at 7:28:51 AM

Yeah, I guess they decided Baron Mordo would be a better first partner. Can't fault them for that, might actually allow them to set up another interesting villain that actually recurs. It's a shame, I haven't gotten much Wong from the few New Avengers comics I've read but when he's shown up I've loved him.

The Blog The Art
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#55525: Apr 18th 2016 at 7:30:04 AM

I still find it funny that the actor playing Wong is named Benedict Wong.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?

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