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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

MousaThe14 Writer, Artist, Ignored from Northern Virginia Since: Jan, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Writer, Artist, Ignored
#55326: Apr 15th 2016 at 4:23:40 AM

The first Captain Anerica movie was pretty much my favourite Phase 1 movie before The Avengers so I've always been confused that apparently the popular view on it is more middling. I mean it's a pretty good movie.

The Blog The Art
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#55327: Apr 15th 2016 at 4:29:11 AM

The first half of it was excellent but once the Howling Commandos are assembled it starts to unravel, though the train scene where Bucky dies was pretty good and tense, and the part between Zola and Tommy Lee Jones was also enjoyable.

edvedd Darling. from At the boutique, dear. Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
Darling.
#55328: Apr 15th 2016 at 4:36:13 AM

Well, I assume the Dark Knight trilogy is up there, but the Captain America series is certainly in the upper echelons of great cinematic trilogies. For some people (not everyone, of course), The Dark Knight Rises wasn't quite as good as the first two, so who knows? Maybe CA is in first place for them now. It's definitely Marvel's most prestigious series.

The original Spider Man trilogy could have been in contention if it wasn't for... well, you know. With Marvel helping to steer things though, the new Spider Man series could take another jab at Venom and actually have a decent chance of it being good.

edited 15th Apr '16 4:39:45 AM by edvedd

Visit my Tumblr! I may say things. The Bureau Project
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#55329: Apr 15th 2016 at 4:37:41 AM

[up][up] Yes, the Howling Commander get a little bit short-shifted in the movie, and it rushes a little bit to the end, but I also think that in the end they manage to pull all the threats together and deliver a heart-breaking finale with a shocking (if you don't know comics) twists in the end.

And some of the complains about the movie are simply silly. Like the popular "why would Nazi write the names of the targets in English on the bombs". Well, I don't know why they bothered to assign every bomb a specific target, but the writing is actually NOT in English, it's in German. The German world for New York and Berlin just happens to be New York and Berlin. The movie is actually very good about not only writing the correct worlds inside the base (and there are quite a lot German inscriptions if you really pay attention to it), but they are all spelled correctly!!! That nearly never happens!

[up] I am not as down on The Dark Knight Rises than others, but I also think that the movie felt tacked on.

edited 15th Apr '16 4:38:44 AM by Swanpride

edvedd Darling. from At the boutique, dear. Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
Darling.
#55330: Apr 15th 2016 at 4:40:59 AM

Admittedly I never got around to seeing Rises (Did see the first two), but in many discussions it seems a bit divisive.

Visit my Tumblr! I may say things. The Bureau Project
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#55331: Apr 15th 2016 at 4:47:10 AM

To me it's similar to Iron man 3 in that it's exciting and tense when you watch it the first time around and haven't seen the twists yet, but starts to fall apart a bit at the seams after multiple viewings. Although I still like both films anyway.

TDKR feels a little... janky I guess, between things like the Narmy dialogue, Fight Scene Failures, the logic of Bane's plot, and so on.

edvedd Darling. from At the boutique, dear. Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
Darling.
#55332: Apr 15th 2016 at 4:54:12 AM

Nolan's film making with Bv S-style Batman hand-to-hand combat (or at least Netflix Daredevil-style) would have been quite the potent mix, I reckon.

Visit my Tumblr! I may say things. The Bureau Project
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#55333: Apr 15th 2016 at 5:26:53 AM

I find it amusing how so many reviews say Civil War is a better Avengers movie than Age of Ultron was.

LordofLore Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
#55334: Apr 15th 2016 at 5:34:45 AM

Since we talked and joked about it a few pages ago: Top 5 Vision Non-Superhero Outfits.

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#55335: Apr 15th 2016 at 6:29:33 AM

It's weird to me that, going into phase four, so few full time Avengers will having their own ongoing solo films.

In fact, the Avengers roster is getting impractically big. We almost need people to leave so that the cast remains manageable.

Post infinity war I guess I could see the roster being Black Widow, Falcon, Warmachine, Scarlet Witch, Captain Marvel, Ant-man, Wasp and Spider-Man. (assuming vision dies and the big three don't renew their contracts and Hawkeye finally manages to retire)

Black Panther would certainly be in any Avengers film, but I imagine he's too busy to be a full time member, and I'm not sure what the Hulk's and Winter Soldier's character arcs are at the moment. That's already eight characters plus T'Challa.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#55336: Apr 15th 2016 at 6:34:54 AM

Maybe not War Machine. I highly doubt he's going to die, but depending on the state of his injuries in this movie he might be temporarily or even permanently out of commission as a superhero. And Captain Marvel might spend most of her time off-Earth to make it less crowded.

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#55337: Apr 15th 2016 at 6:54:25 AM

Captain Marvel is a pretty iconic avenger member though, she's led the team a few times.

If Warmachine is put out of commission I will be so pissed. I know I'm alone in my love of him, but Don is legitimately hilarious in the role and he's a much needed component of diversity in the MCU.

If Cap dies in Infinity war I expect Carol to be the new field captain of the team, and if Tony dies in Infinity War, I half expect T'Challa to be the new bank roller of the team. (It allows him to stay relevant to the team without cutting too much into his royal duties, and MARVEL seems to have a lot of confidence in the character at the moment)

edited 15th Apr '16 6:57:56 AM by Whowho

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#55338: Apr 15th 2016 at 6:58:29 AM

I'm pretty sure everyone is gonna be in Infinity War, and then at the end of that we'll end up with a smaller team for future movies. The good thing is that if anyone else is ever needed back they can be "reserves" or something.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#55339: Apr 15th 2016 at 7:00:12 AM

I'm still not sure about the idea of killing Cap. If he does die I expect it to be in Infinity War after picking up Mjolnir or something.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#55340: Apr 15th 2016 at 7:01:31 AM

God I hope Team Russo delivers on that. They've been excellent with the comic book fanservice so far.

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#55341: Apr 15th 2016 at 7:09:24 AM

Post infinity war they could do what they did in the comics and split the team. Not nessicarily a west coast Avengers, but something like The Illuminati or The Ultimates.

It would mean two team up films a phase, but the pace of the MCU seems to be demanding that at the moment.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#55343: Apr 15th 2016 at 9:08:43 AM

I don't really see a problem at this point. In the current movie are 12 Avengers (if we count Black Panther and Spiderman), two additional ones are missing (Thor and Hulk), and then there are the Wasp, Doctor Strange and Captain Marvel.

So, let's take this from the top. Tony and Rhodey are both nearing retirement age in-universe. The actors are both the same age, but in-universe Rhodey should be a little bit older than Tony, since they meet in college and the latter one was a child genius. By the time Infinity war rolls concludes, they are both in the middle/late 50th. That is a little bit old to still fly in a suit. I can see them both retiring soon from being active avengers (so I can see Tony still being at least mentioned as the one who provides the Avengers with weapons).

Hawkeye already was in retirement before Civil war. He has practically "won't be around for much longer" written all over him. And Thor, well, I guess this depends on Chris Hemsworth. If he doesn't want the role any longer, they might keep the character off-earth for a while and then either convince Chris to take up the mantle again or recast the character (since Asgardians age slower in this universe there is no reason to "age" Thor out of the movies).

Bruce Banner is pretty old, too, but, well, he is the Hulk. Though they could let him go underground whenever they want, or send him off-earth for a while.

The only ones from the original Avengers team I would keep around no matter what are Cap and Black Widow. Cap has become kind of the heart of the MCU at this point, and he is a great leader, and Black Widow is certainly too popular with the female audience to just get rid of her. I am not sure if Scarlett Johansson is up for the role or wouldn't demand too much. Chris Evans, I guess, will be open to it at this point, as long as he can work on his directing career in-between, or whatever else he comes up with next. So, basically, I just wasted a lot of space to point out that most of the original team is already phased out and will most likely not be back after Infinity war, and that Rhodey, who belongs to the current team, is doomed to be gone soon. That leaves from the current team Falcon, Wanda and Vision plus Ant-man (and the Wasp), Black Panther and Spider-man.

Let's start with the latter two: I doubt that they will go the "black Panther is actually from Wakanda but for some strange reason abandons his folk in order to fight crime in New York" route from the comics. He will be there when needed for the big team-up movies, but otherwise you won't really need much of an explanation where he is. And Spider-man is dedicated to crime fighting in New York. While he won't be a teenager for long, it is unlikely that he would abandon the street in order to be a full-time avengers. No reason to expect him popping up anywhere but new York outside of the team-up movies. I likewise doubt that Ant-man (and the Wasp) would leave San Francisco in order to move to the Avengers headquarters because Scott will want to stay close to Cassie and Hope wouldn't want Hank to be all alone. So, again, most likely around for team-ups, not the type of characters who would necessarily be full-time Avengers. And Doctor Strange is too involved in other realms to take care about every little problem on earth.

At the end of the day, I see only seven characters who are primed to be full-time Avengers in a few years: Steve, Natasha, Wanda, Vision, Falcon, Captain Marvel and perhaps Bucky (though Bucky is more or a loner than anything else), provided that nothing is happening on the way there, plus five characters who might be called for help during the team-ups (Spider-man, Black Panther, Ant-man, The Wasp and Doctor Strange). That is a little bit more than we are used to from the first Avengers movie, but actually less than we have in the current Civil war movie and certainly less than they have planned for Infinity war.

The actual question is how they handle it in the stand-alone movie, but honestly, I don't think that outside of Spider-man and perhaps Doctor Strange, there will be any stand-alone movies any longer. I think from Phase 4 onwards we will get small team-ups in each movie. Ant-man and the Wasp, Wanda and Vision and if they go really crazy perhaps even totally unexpected team-up. I would totally watch a "Black Widow and Loki" movie for example. Or a Doctor Strange vs Loki. I also have the feeling that we will get less battles on earth itself, and more in some strange realms or at least on a smaller scale. No reason to destroy a city at every opportunity.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#55344: Apr 15th 2016 at 9:13:52 AM

Damn I keep forgetting Rhodey went to MIT. He really does seem pretty underdeveloped for a guy who's been in four, now five movies. At least the reviews seem to suggest his character is meatier here.

Wackd Since: May, 2009
#55345: Apr 15th 2016 at 9:16:53 AM

Goddammit Marvel. Here am I holding my breath and crossing my fingers and knocking on wood that Petrie and Ramirez are gonna walk and you put them in charge of your huge team-up show. Argh.

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
yellowturtle from Nowhere Important Since: Feb, 2015 Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
#55346: Apr 15th 2016 at 10:04:20 AM

[up] ...They just did?

Crow: There's a plot?
yellowturtle from Nowhere Important Since: Feb, 2015 Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
#55348: Apr 15th 2016 at 10:08:43 AM

Petrie and Ramirez are showrunners for The Defenders. That's what you meant, right?

Crow: There's a plot?
Wackd Since: May, 2009
#55349: Apr 15th 2016 at 10:10:19 AM

Yes. I was hoping they would leave Marvel. I realize now there was some ambiguity in my phrasing.

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#55350: Apr 15th 2016 at 10:12:08 AM

I do not know who these people are and am thus inclined to ask what the problem with them is.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.

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