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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

wehrmacht belongs to the hurricane from the garden of everything Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
belongs to the hurricane
#55026: Apr 12th 2016 at 8:21:01 PM

The problem was Raimi was pressured to put Venom into the movie because of executives. He didn't want to put him in because of his "lack of humanity"; we can see that through the three movies, the humanity of the villains and how they tie into Spider-Man is very important for Raimi, and Venom just did not provide that. So he ended up being shoehorned into the plot and it made for a mess. Without him and the symbiote, the movie could have actually been pretty decent.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#55027: Apr 12th 2016 at 8:22:05 PM

Venom only lacks humanity if you're lazy.

There's a decent concept in there that more often than not has been squandered.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#55028: Apr 12th 2016 at 8:23:42 PM

[up]I think Spectacular Spiderman did a pretty solid job with him at least. Though that might be the exception that proves the rule.

edited 12th Apr '16 8:23:53 PM by kkhohoho

wehrmacht belongs to the hurricane from the garden of everything Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
belongs to the hurricane
#55029: Apr 12th 2016 at 8:26:33 PM

In fairness, the popular perception of Venom and the character as he was portrayed in adaptations before SM 3 (I guess mainly the 90's animated series) didn't exactly paint a picture of him as a super complex and tragic character, which seemed to be Raimi's favorite thing given the fact that elements of that are present with all the three "main" villains of his trilogy.

Not that this really matters all that much because I'm fairly sure that his Doctor Octopus was pretty different from the "mainstream" portrayal of the character as a self-important and arrogant mad genius, who didn't really have the tragedy of losing his wife and the arms controlling him and his ambitions failing him and whatnot. I guess the main point is that Raimi just didn't care for him, and pressure to put him in that movie because of his popularity only contributed to making the movie much worse than it likely would have been otherwise.

edited 12th Apr '16 8:28:58 PM by wehrmacht

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#55030: Apr 12th 2016 at 8:27:53 PM

Best case would have been the executives letting Raimi do his thing. Moderate case, Raimi apply his Raimi nonsense to Venom. Worst case, Raimi makes a movie about Judas Traveler.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#55031: Apr 12th 2016 at 8:29:07 PM

Raimi did not want to use Venom and when he was forced to use him, he ended up intentionally making him suck.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#55032: Apr 12th 2016 at 8:33:21 PM

Good work ethic there Raimi.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#55033: Apr 12th 2016 at 8:34:57 PM

Honestly I think it would've been better to cut the Sandman and focus on the symbiote and Venom more. Both of those things fit in better with the overall themes of the Spider-Man series which was about identity.

Spider-man 1: Peter becomes Spider-man. Norman fighter for control over himself and loses.

Spider-man 2: Peter decides whether he wants to stay Spider-man. Octavius fights for control of his mind and wins but dies.

Spider-man 3: Rather than the villain, it's Peter who has to fight for control over himself.

edited 12th Apr '16 8:37:16 PM by MadSkillz

wehrmacht belongs to the hurricane from the garden of everything Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
belongs to the hurricane
#55034: Apr 12th 2016 at 8:36:16 PM

I don't know about intentionally making him suck, and in fairness the movie was juggling enough things as it was. He probably just prioritized Sandman and the harry storyline, which in fairness is what would have made sense anyway because those are two important plotlines that have ties to the first movie and take precedence over some new upstart villain.

All the more reason to get a good adaptation of the character in the MCU. I want to see Agent Venom personally but that'd take a long time to set up.

[up]If he really cared to, he could have probably made Venom a decent character the same way he did with Doctor Octopus. He wasn't exactly faithful to comic book Doc Ock to the letter, but that didn't really matter because his take on the character was compelling for the time.

The movie could have worked if it was either Harry and Sandman or Harry and Venom, but not all three.

edited 12th Apr '16 8:38:19 PM by wehrmacht

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#55035: Apr 12th 2016 at 8:40:25 PM

I don't understand how the Sandman didn't feel shoe'd in. He comes out of nowhere and is now Uncle Ben's killer.

I think rather than Eddie Brock, it should've been J Jonah Jameson's son who should've become Venom. He already has a grudge against Peter and he's an astronaut. He could've come back with the symbiote on one of his trips.

edited 12th Apr '16 8:41:30 PM by MadSkillz

wehrmacht belongs to the hurricane from the garden of everything Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
belongs to the hurricane
#55036: Apr 12th 2016 at 8:42:29 PM

Oh that was another thing I was going to mention; there wasn't much need to really revisit the Uncle Ben thing by introducing this shooter we didn't know about. Not that it was a problem per se and it would have worked if the movie could actually focus on it, but you know.

edvedd Darling. from At the boutique, dear. Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
IronScope STOP. RESETTING. MY. DISPLAY. OPTIONS. from Somewhere Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
STOP. RESETTING. MY. DISPLAY. OPTIONS.
#55038: Apr 12th 2016 at 9:02:50 PM

Trippy.

This place is careless.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#55039: Apr 12th 2016 at 9:03:46 PM

Damn. I'm a believer.

One Strip! One Strip!
wehrmacht belongs to the hurricane from the garden of everything Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
belongs to the hurricane
#55040: Apr 12th 2016 at 9:05:06 PM

Looks trippy.

I see they decided to have Cumberbatch go with an american accent for this, but it's convincing enough that I don't have a problem with it.

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#55041: Apr 12th 2016 at 9:05:18 PM

Goddamn that looks badass and so unlike anything in the MCU which is a great thing

[up] His American accent is better than his natural accent.

edited 12th Apr '16 9:05:58 PM by MadSkillz

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#55042: Apr 12th 2016 at 9:07:46 PM

American accent took me back initially (amusingly reminds me a bit of Dr. House), but... wow. I feel like he does after watching it.

It's like after a consistent rule of magic being science, this is so different. Also while I know there will be other trailers, this seemed unusual in not really spelling out the plotlines and stylistically telling the story through how Strange looks at different points.

edited 12th Apr '16 9:09:11 PM by Hodor2

edvedd Darling. from At the boutique, dear. Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
Darling.
#55043: Apr 12th 2016 at 9:16:09 PM

The effects in this are already off the hook. And there's already something kind of horror-y about the tone.

edited 12th Apr '16 9:16:43 PM by edvedd

Visit my Tumblr! I may say things. The Bureau Project
Galadriel Since: Feb, 2015
#55044: Apr 12th 2016 at 9:16:36 PM

A bit of origin story, a bit of mysticism, and quite a lot of visuals (and sound) cribbed from Inception.

Not hyped about this one. Nothing about the trailer stands out, and I don't trust the directors track record. Will wait to see what the reviews are in fall before deciding if I want to see it.

Mullon Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: And here's to you, Mrs. Robinson
#55045: Apr 12th 2016 at 9:20:31 PM

I think it's a bad sign that Strange only has two lines, one of which we don't see him say, that could have been said by anyone with the same level of gravitas. That was a better trailer for Baron Mordo than it was for Strange.

Never trust anyone who uses "degenerate" as an insult.
edvedd Darling. from At the boutique, dear. Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
Darling.
#55046: Apr 12th 2016 at 9:24:59 PM

I'm sure he'll have more than two in the next one. tongue

Kind of early to say anything about acting.

Visit my Tumblr! I may say things. The Bureau Project
Punisher286 Since: Jan, 2016
#55047: Apr 12th 2016 at 9:26:15 PM

That doesn't bother me at all. It's not like it hasn't happened before and it's only the first teaser trailer.

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#55048: Apr 12th 2016 at 9:26:22 PM

The goddamn hyyyyyype.

What really hooked me were the visuals. The moment where the entire room shifts around Mads Miekkelsen's character looks fantastic.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#55049: Apr 12th 2016 at 9:36:23 PM

Nice. Still not sold on Swinton but the rest of the cast looks great.


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