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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#54251: Mar 31st 2016 at 10:39:48 AM

[up]An adaptation of Loki Agent of Asguard, maybe?

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#54252: Mar 31st 2016 at 10:44:02 AM

It's not like Malekith didn't have any screentime. There was this boring prologue to explain that he is an idiot who killed his own people. Then there was this equally boring talk between him and the Cursed. The attack on Asgard during which he somehow was unable to note that Jane is an illusion even though according to the narrative, he didn't come specifically for her but was drawn by the Aether (meaning he should have followed the call from this thing instead of being interested in Jane at all). Then he gets defeated by Frigga and rescued in the last moment by the Cursed (and least HE is a badass character), only to get hurt badly by Thor's hammer (honestly, in every fight he looses something, how am I supposed to believe that he is a serious threat?). And in all this time they neither established what his motivation is (he wants darkness, but they never say why).

Thor the Dark World has a running time of 1 hour and 52 minutes. The time spend on loki is perhaps 40 minutes, too. That still leaves more than a hour to establish Malekith as an interesting villain. But obviously the writers had nothing interesting to say about him.

Now, I am not saying that it would have been impossible to make the Malekith arc better. But as far as I know, the first version of the script was low on Loki and focussed on him, and it nevertheless didn't work during the Test screening. But the audience responded positive to Loki, but not to anything else, so they put another writing team on the movie and added in more Loki. To me it looks and sounds like Marvel did a smart move and salvaged a sh... movie which, to be honest, should have been about Loki in the first place by giving the fans what they wanted.

dRoy Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar from Most likely from my study Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just high on the world
Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar
#54253: Mar 31st 2016 at 10:46:45 AM

I'm not sure that, as great of a villain and character in general Loki is, there's enough material to make great and distinct movies centered around him.

Then again, they did make The Dark World.

-runs away-

Continuously reading, studying, and (hopefully) growing.
LordofLore Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
#54254: Mar 31st 2016 at 11:18:35 AM

Hiddleston is a fan of Gillen's Loki stories and even posted a fan mail in one of the books. If anyone can sell the character it's him.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#54255: Mar 31st 2016 at 11:41:59 AM

There's an issue with making Loki movies.

Hiddleston would have a very hard time playing Kid Loki, what with him being 35 and all. Doing Kid Loki movies would inevitably mean recasting, which might hurt his popularity.

Keeping Hiddleston and foregoing the Kid Loki element would allow them to make movies just around Loki, but I think that might also hurt his popularity. The Woobie factor is a big part of his appeal. People like to pity him and write Comfort Fics about him. That appeal may begin to wane in a movie about Loki triumphantly overcoming his obstacles and winning the day.

Hiddleston's Loki is a very popular villain but I'm not convinced he's suited to a protagonist role. His fans aren't here to see him succeed. They relate to and/or love him because of how much of a loser he is.

edited 31st Mar '16 11:45:17 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
LordofLore Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
#54256: Mar 31st 2016 at 11:48:26 AM

Thus we need a good actor who can play a 15-16 year old Kid Loki, one to play him as a 20-25 year old Loki, one to play a 40-50 year old future Loki and Hiddleston as Ikol.

DarthSion Statement: All meatbags must die from Slokovia Since: Mar, 2016 Relationship Status: All is for my lord
Statement: All meatbags must die
#54257: Mar 31st 2016 at 11:52:59 AM

The tv villains are inherently better

Cut off one head 2 more shall take it's place! Hail Hydra
MousaThe14 Writer, Artist, Ignored from Northern Virginia Since: Jan, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Writer, Artist, Ignored
#54258: Mar 31st 2016 at 11:53:20 AM

Nobu says otherwise.

The Blog The Art
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#54259: Mar 31st 2016 at 11:53:58 AM

Well he was alright in Season 1...

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#54260: Mar 31st 2016 at 11:55:22 AM

I honestly don't see a problem...sooner or later Hiddleston will either be too old for the role or his contracts ends and he is committed to other projects. Then they can do the kid-loki story. Until then, let's milk the characters.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#54261: Mar 31st 2016 at 11:55:51 AM

It isn't wise to blindly claim all the TV MCU villains are better.

DarthSion Statement: All meatbags must die from Slokovia Since: Mar, 2016 Relationship Status: All is for my lord
Statement: All meatbags must die
#54262: Mar 31st 2016 at 11:57:38 AM

I meant in general. This is because a season of tv is longer than a movie and thus there is a lot more time to develop characters

Cut off one head 2 more shall take it's place! Hail Hydra
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#54263: Mar 31st 2016 at 12:01:41 PM

Garrett was a let-down. I liked the Clairvoyant more when I thought he had superpowers. Or was an AI program within the S.H.I.E.L.D. network using advanced prediction matrixes and shit.

Finding out he's just some guy reading people's psych profiles was underwhelming.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
wehrmacht belongs to the hurricane from the garden of everything Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
belongs to the hurricane
#54264: Mar 31st 2016 at 12:02:25 PM

[up][up] That's basically what it comes down to.

The other part is that well, the Netflix shows of the Defenders brand deal with darker and more adult themes, and the villains are part of that. It doesn't necessarily make them inherently better but it's done relatively well and it is pretty refreshing compared to the movies.

edited 31st Mar '16 12:02:40 PM by wehrmacht

DarthSion Statement: All meatbags must die from Slokovia Since: Mar, 2016 Relationship Status: All is for my lord
Statement: All meatbags must die
#54265: Mar 31st 2016 at 12:03:06 PM

Well who do you remember more Garret or whip dynamo

Cut off one head 2 more shall take it's place! Hail Hydra
MousaThe14 Writer, Artist, Ignored from Northern Virginia Since: Jan, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Writer, Artist, Ignored
#54266: Mar 31st 2016 at 12:03:37 PM

And Ward has been diminshing returns since Skye shot him.

The Blog The Art
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#54267: Mar 31st 2016 at 12:07:23 PM

Ward is above all currently unbelievable creepy...nearly Killgrave creepy, and that is saying something.

The track record in the TV shows is slightly better than in the movies. But then, the TV shows are able to built up the villains over several episodes. Loki is partly such a good villain because Thor 1 spend just as much time on him than on Thor.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#54268: Mar 31st 2016 at 12:07:51 PM

Well who do you remember more Garret or whip dynamo

Whip Dynamo. He was a fairly weak character, but

  • "If you can make God bleed, people will refuse to believe in him."
  • (effortlessly hacking Hammer's systems) "Your software is shit."
  • "I vant MY bird."

I can remember a lot about what Whip Dynamo said and did. I remember his motivations and the moral complexity they may or may not have introduced for Stark's family.

I cannot for the life of me tell you a single line of dialogue that ever left Garrett's mouth. He was just some Hydra asshole doing bad stuff. The only memorable thing he ever did was get hilariously blown up in the middle of swearing revenge.

edited 31st Mar '16 12:08:47 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
ultimatepheer Since: Mar, 2011
#54269: Mar 31st 2016 at 12:10:22 PM

And the Nailgun Incident. Don't tell me you forgot about the Nailgun Incident.

MousaThe14 Writer, Artist, Ignored from Northern Virginia Since: Jan, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Writer, Artist, Ignored
#54270: Mar 31st 2016 at 12:11:37 PM

No no, The other memorable thing was him completely misquoting Fury with "one man can accomplish anything once he realizes he can be something bigger" and Fury is all "A PART. A PART of something bigger!"

The Blog The Art
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#54271: Mar 31st 2016 at 12:11:44 PM

Nailgun incident?

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
DarthSion Statement: All meatbags must die from Slokovia Since: Mar, 2016 Relationship Status: All is for my lord
Statement: All meatbags must die
#54272: Mar 31st 2016 at 12:11:56 PM

Ok well at least he has more of a personality then Laufey, Korath, Abomination, or Malekith lord of bland

Cut off one head 2 more shall take it's place! Hail Hydra
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#54273: Mar 31st 2016 at 12:13:11 PM

I assure you Sion, there are a greater number of weak TV villains.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#54274: Mar 31st 2016 at 12:13:42 PM

I remember a few things about Garrett:

"Put your arms down, Kaminsky, you look like a West Texas cheerleader at a pep rally"

Him going batshit insane, ripping a guy's rib out and stabbing him to death with it.

Nick Fury's reaction to his insanity ("You didn't tell me he was this crazy")

And, of course, him swearing revenge and dying before he could finish the sentence

Oh, and then there was him blasting Don't Fear the Reaper while being chased by SHIELD planes

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#54275: Mar 31st 2016 at 12:15:07 PM

Let's not forget the scene when he has Fitz, Coulson and May cornered and wants to force Fitz to work for him....or when he orders Deathlock to shoot Ward in order to get information....or when he explains to Skye why burn wounds hurt more at their edges...but the most awesome part is the way he ends. (in fact, the whole confrontation with Coulson and Fury is made out of pure awesome).


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