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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

LordofLore Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
#53601: Mar 21st 2016 at 7:39:15 AM

What stuff? I said thank god with Marvel characters.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#53602: Mar 21st 2016 at 7:39:55 AM

Oh, I didn't catch that you were making a joke.

MapleSamurai Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#53603: Mar 21st 2016 at 7:51:35 AM

Yikes. Is Sony's creative team run by drunk fan fiction writers or something? Because you'll have a hard time convincing me otherwise at this point. tongue

Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#53604: Mar 21st 2016 at 7:56:11 AM

[up]Just curious, what makes you believe that?

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#53605: Mar 21st 2016 at 7:59:18 AM

I don't know about dark, but pop on over to The Amazing Spider-Man Series page for more details on Sony's plans.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#53606: Mar 21st 2016 at 8:11:04 AM

Dennis Leary said the main hook of 3 would have been Peter discovering a serum that could raise the dead.

It's pretty clear everyone at Sony realized killing Gwen was a huge mistake.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#53607: Mar 21st 2016 at 8:45:05 AM

Then why do it at all? I don't get this. If everyone realized it was a bad idea why not rewrite the movie to remove her death? They had a perfectly fine climax with the Electro battle. Just film an extra scene with Gwen and Peter in the city and then have him run off when he hears Rhino going on a rampage.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#53608: Mar 21st 2016 at 8:49:10 AM

Because they wanted to please the fans, basically. Gwen's death was something that happened in the comics, so it had to happen in the movie, according to studio logic. That was one of the biggest problems with the movies. It was very clearly a bunch of focus group pandering and studio notes.

"Make sure Spider-Man fights his most iconic villain, even though there's absolutely no build-up or groundwork in place." "Oh and make sure he fights a giant CGI robot so we can put it in all the trailers and make a bunch of action figures!!" "Make sure you throw in some moments from the comics too so the fanboys will go crazy over the trailer!" "Sequel Hooks! Don't forget sequel hooks!" "And throw in some dubstep! The kids love dubstep!"

edited 21st Mar '16 8:50:38 AM by comicwriter

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#53609: Mar 21st 2016 at 8:52:24 AM

Emma Stone apparently wanted Gwen to die sometime during the films. It's why she signed on.

edited 21st Mar '16 8:52:33 AM by VeryMelon

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#53610: Mar 21st 2016 at 8:54:34 AM

Yeah. Emma Stone had it in her contract when she first signed on to play Gwen in Amazing that they have to kill her. Even if everyone and their dog believed it to be a mistake, legally, they had to do it.

She's just about the only person satisfied with it, too.

I feel pretty good about it. I knew from the very beginning what the intention was with the arc. I'm happy. I think it was... executed well.

edited 21st Mar '16 8:57:10 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#53611: Mar 21st 2016 at 9:00:05 AM

Boooooooo

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#53612: Mar 21st 2016 at 9:00:45 AM

Translation: "I was lucky to bail on the franchise before it became an even bigger train wreck."

wehrmacht belongs to the hurricane from the garden of everything Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
belongs to the hurricane
#53613: Mar 21st 2016 at 9:01:59 AM

I have not seen the movie in full but the clips I've seen of ASM 2 make it look like an utter mess of a movie. Similar problems to SM 3 I suppose but it honestly looks worse in my opinion.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#53614: Mar 21st 2016 at 9:02:11 AM

If that's how Stone feels about it, then I'm fine with it.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#53615: Mar 21st 2016 at 9:03:11 AM

The pun is inexcusable though

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#53617: Mar 21st 2016 at 9:17:35 AM

I'm not satisfied. Between the fact that she insisted on putting it in her contract when she signed and the fact that she's just about the only person satisfied with it happening - to the point of Sony conspiring to revive her in ASM 3 as mentioned earlier in the thread - I could more easily summarize my feelings on the matter as "pointed blame".

But yes, the comparison to Spider-Man 3 is an apt one. Too many narrative threads all pulling in opposite directions.

edited 21st Mar '16 9:18:38 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#53618: Mar 21st 2016 at 9:19:30 AM

I was never upset with Gwen dying in the first place, just who she died too. When I said I was fine with how it played out if Stone was, it was as a reply to comicwriter's post claiming she was saving face.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#53619: Mar 21st 2016 at 9:21:55 AM

It was a joke, relax.

But regardless, it was still a dumb choice. She was one of the big things that made those movies watchable. I can see why they were scrambling to find some way to bring her back.

edited 21st Mar '16 9:22:34 AM by comicwriter

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#53620: Mar 21st 2016 at 9:23:25 AM

It's kind of strange how people talk about how the studios don't really care about what the comic fans think since movie audiences are bigger and then stuff like Gwen dying in the films happens because it was in the comics.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#53621: Mar 21st 2016 at 9:56:53 AM

Film studios are savvy enough to realize fans can provide a lot of early word of mouth, but they're also aware that they're not numerous enough to seriously harm the production if it's something they don't like.

Case in point (and I hate to bring this up again), but Marvel was confident enough about the Mandarin twist that they didn't consider fanboys would be angry and seriously damage the film's profits. And they were correct. The movie grossed a billion dollars.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#53622: Mar 21st 2016 at 10:20:06 AM

"Fanboys are upset" isn't really a tangible force, is the thing. Because the fanbase is not a hive-mind. What pisses off THESE fans might thrill and excite THOSE fans. I, for instance, consider Killian to be a fantastic adaptation of the Mandarin who perfectly captures the spirit of the character, while others are absolutely livid because he isn't Chinese, because he doesn't have the Rings, or because they just found him boring.

Iron Man 3 took some pretty big liberties with the source material to create a pretty good movie and the result was 79% Freshness and a position as one of the highest grossing films of all time, outstripping both of its predecessors.

Amazing Spider-Man 2 was a jumbled, chaotic movie with too many plot threads to keep track of, but they kept with the comic's decision to kill off Gwen regardless of how well it worked within the narrative and their upcoming plans. End result: 53% freshness and yet another contribution in the ever-continuing trend of every Spider-Movie making less money than the last.

Because as much as the fans might bitch and moan about every change, ultimately they're not the target audience. Their patronage is a sure thing. What matters most is making a good movie, one that will please people who like to watch movies. You can put Rhodey in the Iron Patriot, reveal S.H.I.E.L.D. to secretly be Hydra, turn Drax blue, whatever. Sure, it wasn't like that in the comics, but as long as it's internally consistent and contributes to the central narrative thread, people will watch it.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#53623: Mar 21st 2016 at 10:21:03 AM

I liked that the put Gwen Stacy's death on screen. I just hated that they tacked the Rhino behind it.

Anyway, I am sure that Marvel will insist on more thinking ahead in the Spider-man movies. No matter who actually has the control (supposedly Sony, but I wouldn't bet on it), the movies still have to fit into the MCU.

Concerning the fanbase: You can't do movies for the fanbase, because there is always someone who is displeased, but you should respect the fanbase and the source material. If you don't do that, well, see Fant4stic, or Jen and the Holograms, or any property in which the movie barely resembles the spirit of the original story anymore. Fans do have a radar for this kind of nonsense, and once you upset the fanbase as a whole and not just one isolated group in it, you do have a problem.

edited 21st Mar '16 10:25:24 AM by Swanpride

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#53624: Mar 21st 2016 at 10:43:56 AM

There is a final cut of the vid which was poster here beforehand:

higherbrainpattern Since: Apr, 2012
#53625: Mar 21st 2016 at 10:49:44 AM

@comicwriter: Wasn't the plan to bring Gwen back going to be introducing a version of Gwen from an alternate universe where she was bitten by a spider instead of Peter if the ASM movies had continued past ASM 2?

So, Sony basically came up with Spider-Gwen first. [lol]


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