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Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
I find his arc to be relatively decent in the movie, carried mostly by Chris Hemsworth's charisma and the general acting. Not as well done as I'd have wanted, but it's decent. There are a few deleted scenes of him bonding more with Selvig and that's where I think his arc shows best. The scene he drinks with Selvig is where things click. The scene he sacrifices himself to save the city is also a legitimately pretty well-thought out moment character-wise. Its directly mirrors his big mistake in the beginning of the movie (in which he tries to solve the Asgard-Jotunheim conflict by brute strength, while here he tries to solve the Midgard-Asgard conflict by diplomacy).
Main problem is just that Midgard is not as interesting as it should be. Loki's arc works better because it's entirely in Asgard, and Asgard is inherently awesome. The actual arcs (Thor learning humility, Loki's enviousness besting him) are both relatively on the same level, it's just the surroundings that trip things up.
edited 20th Mar '16 11:50:25 AM by Gaon
"All you Fascists bound to lose."I genuinely liked Thor.
Granted, it has problems, mostly because the Warriors Three and Sif did fuck all and so did Selvig and the Poly Sci major that I forgot the name of.
Honestly, Loki and Thor just didn't have enough screen time together. In the end it came down to punching, a contest we KNOW Loki loses. It should have been more a battle of Wits, with Thor succeeding despite a disadvantage to show how far we come.
Also, the last 5 seconds of Loki? We needed more of those.
I agree that burd is the true hero of Iron Man 2. It actually was a pretty cool idea to give the villain a budding relationship with his pet to humanize him. Particularly since Ivan as a character is a guy who doesn't work well with anyone, seems to be a bit of a misantrophe and doesn't really treat anyone with intimacy. Giving him a pet allows him to show his softer side.
"All you Fascists bound to lose.""It's about learning what it means to rule, leading a people, mingling with your subjects and acquiring their trust. Brows Held High once explained that Thor, as a concept, is about monarchy. And I agree. "
Except Thor have not problem bonding with people, he go really well and is charming, even his friend in asgard really cared about him, while Loki arc is the fact he is not asgardian, have been lie is whole life and Odin just shurg that with a "Well, I treat you well, dosent it?" so Thor just feel like a jerk jock who have to learn to not be such a dick while Loki fall into despair.
not surprise people have more simpathy to Loki than Thor, his arc is just him being less of a douchebag while Loki have more intersting drama going on.
"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"I saw again and yep, Mickey Rouke prepared a lot for the role: he visit a russian prision, make exercies, he sugest part of his dialogue was in russian and pay from his own pocket the gold teeth and the bird, he was quite piss after he saw the final result, saying Marvel just want generic villians.
Considering Marvel track record with their cinematic villians....
"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"@Unknowing: What? No. That's not at all what's going on. Thor is close to his personal friends, but the thing is, they're....his personal friends. And even then Thor is shown as being pretty cavalier about dragging them on to a possibly suicide mission against the Jotuns. The catch is Thor doesn't bond with the commoners, the people he's supposed to rule over. When Odin talks about how many lives a war would cost, Thor pretty much gives a shrug, because he doesn't really consider the lives of his subjects in the equation. He's just about his right to rule and how the Jotuns offended it, rather than how a war would annihilate his people.
Saying he's friendly with the Warriors Three doesn't change anything, because they're his childhood friends, he's known them his whole life, of course he's friendly with them. The purpose of his stay on Eath is for him to mingle with the people he doesn't know, the kind of people he'd rule over. The random, common strangers with their own little lives and struggles who rely on him to stay alive. His arc in the movie is bonding with those common people, learning that their plight is also his, learning that his sole function as a ruler is to keep these common people alive and happy, and not about his own pride or arrogance. That's what it means to rule. Thor's arc isn't about being less of a douchebag, it's about maturig into a leader of people. Into a King, someone who puts his subject's lives and purposes above his own at all times (he basically dies in the third act of the movie in an attempt to save humanity), and through his courage and kinship with them, inspires them to better actions. The model King.
That's why I don't like the jock and nerd comparison. That's not what they are. They are princes struggling with the concept of rulling over the subjects and ultimately coming to opposite conclusions.
It's like if Odin is the King of Britain, Loki is his adopted son and Thor is his legitimate heir. And then Thor is banished to...Spain, while Loki is revealed to be the heir of the French throne all along. And in Spain Thor mingles with the Moorish commoners and thus learns how to rule Britain as a result, whilst Loki gets troubled by his French heritage and conspires to take over the English throne while not giving a shit about his English subjects and planning to wipe out the entirety of France.
"All you Fascists bound to lose."![]()
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they shoudl bring vanko back a sort of human-bird hybrid......
What, dont look me like that, Marvel have done more weird shit.
But Thor dosent have any problem bonding with people, he just never have to until that point, he get along with Midgardians just fine and dandy, is pride and reckeless nature is barely there in midgard arc, I call him a jerkjock becuase he act like one: have a bunch of friend, resolve thing with violence and have to learn to no being so shit head, I think the royal angles is express WAAAAY better at the end of thor 2, when he said he is not ready to be king but he want to be protector of Midgard, it show a nice evolution of his chararter.
edited 20th Mar '16 2:58:53 PM by unknowing
"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"![]()
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That's what you're not getting. He is friendly (with a select group of people, we never see him being friendly with anyone except his explicit childhood friends), but he doesn't really value their lives and their struggles all that much. He is friendly with them, yes, but he doesn't put their struggles and thoughts above his own like a King should, because he's the Prince/King, the heir of Asgard, and they're just random people. The arc is him being stripped of those privileges and thrown into the struggle of these common people, and through living amongst them and bonding with them learning the value of their plight and that his duty is to regard those little struggles above all others. It's not about being friendly to people, it's about rulling them (which Thor does by bonding with them, yes, but that's not the point).
I don't like the high school comparison because it doesn't function very well. Jocks have no divine right to rule a high school (and they don't, the Dean does), high schools aren't kingdoms, students are not commoners, high school movies aren't about jocks learning to value their subjects, because they're athletic teenagers, they don't have subjects. And Loki is not a nerd, nobody bullies him, and nerds do not scheme to usurp the control of the high school from the guy who's supposed to be in charge.
edited 20th Mar '16 3:12:05 PM by Gaon
"All you Fascists bound to lose."Yeah, I see the nerd comparison with Loki a lot in fan stuff, but it not really there in the film.
If anything, it becomes clear relatively quickly that Loki is basically what Thor could be without character development. He's just as arrogant, entitled because of his high position and cavalier with the lives of others.
There some small indications that Loki is shunned by other Asgardians, but all of those are in deleted scenes.
On another note, I heavily disagree with the idea that Midgard is a boring place when it comes to Thor. I do, however, think that Thor 1 never really used Earth as well as it could have. Thor learning humility on Midgard is very unfulfilled and mostly condensed to falling in love with the right girl at the right time.
IMO, Thor 2 treats Midgard way better.
edited 20th Mar '16 4:44:46 PM by KnownUnknown
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the similarities between jerkjock and arrogant prince is that both are entitled into their arrogance, just that once have actual reason for it as part of the system,
Both for most part, once Thor land in midgard he just act the same way as before but without being a dick, it make look his problem is being reckless and violent, less a arrogant prince and more a frat boy who need a spank for being stupid.
It something Thor was perfect for more theme over chararter aproach of DC, because he come as weak compared witrh Loki.
"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"

The idea is fine but the execution was pretty lackluster on thor's end. His dicking around in the earth realm is completely uninteresting "fish out of water" scenarios, natalie portman's jane foster is a thoroughly unengaging mandatory love interest (and none of the other earth characters are interesting either), and while not exactly the same it is similar enough to tony's "manchild learns to take responsibility for his actions and how to be a less shitty person" arc to be noticeable, especially in how much weaker it is in comparison.
Loki's arc is good, but he can't save the movie. All the Earth stuff does is feel like it's distracting us from a much more interesting movie which is happening at the same time.
edited 20th Mar '16 11:42:54 AM by wehrmacht