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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#53051: Mar 12th 2016 at 7:05:20 AM

Let's just leave clones out of the MCU altogether. They're nothing but trouble.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#53052: Mar 12th 2016 at 7:07:33 AM

wild mass guessAt some point in the movie, Spider-Man will reveal his identity... as Ben Reilly. Gasp!wild mass guess

Cross (Don’t ask)
#53053: Mar 12th 2016 at 7:10:50 AM

[up][up][up]Wasn't around for the original Clone Saga, but I have been told it mostly came down to Arc Fatigue and the one for the Ultimate verse was good.

[down]So the version I was told about was the 90s one?

edited 12th Mar '16 8:10:16 AM by Cross

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#53054: Mar 12th 2016 at 7:58:58 AM

There was actually a clone saga before the 90s one that was overall well regarded

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#53055: Mar 12th 2016 at 8:15:08 AM

The clone saga overall was considered a Dork Age, but less because of the clone stuff and more because of the convoluted mess the plot ended up becoming, what with the Jackal becoming progressively more over-the-top, his constantly changing schemes, the "who's the real Peter?" storyline going nowhere, and the fact it just wouldn't friggin end, among other things. From what I understood, it was because the editors were under the impression big sagas were more lucrative and as such kept trying to make it longer when it should have ended a while ago. Linkara made a series of reviews on the topic.

Point is, yes, the clone saga was a mess and is hated by most fans, but even those who hated it admitted it eventually resulted in some good parts. Mainly Ben Reily and eventually Kaine. Everything Scarlet Spider-related in fact.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#53056: Mar 12th 2016 at 8:23:37 AM

The Marvel Cinematic Universe cannot handle clone plots.

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#53057: Mar 12th 2016 at 8:24:50 AM

[up][up]Also in the few ocasion they adapt the clone saga, it was very good, I enjoy the scarlet spider in both the 90 series and even the ultime spiderman series

edited 12th Mar '16 8:25:12 AM by unknowing

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
edvedd Darling. from At the boutique, dear. Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
Darling.
#53058: Mar 12th 2016 at 8:39:23 AM

The whole discussion over the last few pages just put me in the mood. tongue

Visit my Tumblr! I may say things. The Bureau Project
Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#53059: Mar 12th 2016 at 8:43:21 AM

[up].... Which one ? °°

[up][up]You mean the Ultimate Spider-Man comic series right?

edited 12th Mar '16 8:43:59 AM by Theokal3

edvedd Darling. from At the boutique, dear. Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#53061: Mar 12th 2016 at 8:46:58 AM

You know this whole Civil War thing has got me kind of thinking and well, it seems like the movies are falling into the same trap the comics do of mostly excusing or ignoring Steve's poor decisions.

Take for example this exchange from Winter Soldier

Nick Fury: These new long range precision guns can eliminate a thousand hostiles a minute. The satellites can read a terrorist's DNA before he steps outside his spider hole. We gonna neutralize a lot of threats before they even happen.

Steve Rogers: I thought the punishment usually came *after* the crime.

Nick Fury: We can't afford to wait that long.

Steve Rogers: Who's "we"?

Nick Fury: After New York, I convinced the World Security Council we needed a quantum surge in threat analysis. For once we're way ahead of the curve.

Steve Rogers: By holding a gun at everyone on Earth and calling it protection.

Nick Fury: You know, I read those SSR files. Greatest generation? You guys did some nasty stuff.

Steve Rogers: Yeah, we compromised. Sometimes in ways that made us not sleep so well. But we did it so the people could be free. This isn't freedom, this is fear.

Nick Fury: S.H.I.E.L.D. takes the world as it is, not as we'd like to be. And it's getting damn near past time for you get with that program, Cap.

Steve Rogers: Don't hold your breath.

Basically Steve is making excuses for the things he and his fellow soldiers did (both good and bad) as for the "greater good". And yet, even though Fury is doing the same for similar reasons, he's presented as a misguided fool he needs his eyes opened. Furthermore, this "nasty stuff" that the SSR did that Steve was apparently a part of is never mentioned again. We don't even see him doing it. It's only mentioned as an insincere attempt to make Steve seem flawed, like his supposed Blood Knight tendencies.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#53062: Mar 12th 2016 at 8:53:17 AM

It should just be common knowledge that the US did some f'd up stuff in WWII

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#53063: Mar 12th 2016 at 8:54:27 AM

[up][up] The difference is that Steve compromised in order to remove an evil which was killing people every day. Fury wanted to remove an evil before it even had a chance to actually be evil.

edited 12th Mar '16 8:54:37 AM by Swanpride

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#53064: Mar 12th 2016 at 9:16:24 AM

[up][up]Which these movies tend to gloss over when discussing morally gray issues.

LordofLore Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#53067: Mar 12th 2016 at 10:17:16 AM

[up][up]I heard about that one. Gotta admit, I kinda wish it had turned out that way.

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#53068: Mar 12th 2016 at 10:25:11 AM

Cap being trusted with EVERYONE's identities, and him alone, rubs me the wrong way. That's massively open to corruption and not to mention that this is a setting with mind control.

I prefer the what if universe where Civil War doesn't happen because Cap and Toni are married by that point.

Wackd Since: May, 2009
#53069: Mar 12th 2016 at 10:34:32 AM

I mean, if we're being totally honest, there is no private or public organization or individual I'd trust with the absurd fuckton of power that exists in superhero universes. Trusting that Steve is incorruptible is as close as we're gonna get.

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#53070: Mar 12th 2016 at 10:41:57 AM

there is no public organisation in real life I would trust either. The thing is if someone would ask me to elect who I think is the best guy to make a decision in situations like this, I would pick Cap in a heartbeat.

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#53071: Mar 12th 2016 at 10:48:10 AM

It annoys me that there are no institutions in the 616 who consider to potential risks of mind control. Information security, Congress and the courts should have rigorous anti mind control measures, but as far as I'm aware they don't.

Outside of that charity survey team which employs Verity Willis the Human Lie Detector. (Who I love by the way. She can no sell fucking Xavier.)

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#53072: Mar 12th 2016 at 11:08:59 AM

Why should there? The people Loki controlled had those blue eyes, so you would see immediately if someone is under the control of the mind stone. Wanda only can influence people by using their fear against them, it is not like she can order them around to do whatever she wants them to do. And Killgrave is dead, but even before he died his influence was limited, and even if it hadn't been, he could have simply ordered whoever is responsible for checking to overlook what he sees (not to mention that most people preferred to pretend that he didn't exist in the first place).

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#53073: Mar 12th 2016 at 11:13:04 AM

You're confusing universes, I was referring to the 616 universe. Which has a lot more mind controllers than the MCU (though now the MCU knows they exist, they should start considering precautions)

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#53074: Mar 12th 2016 at 11:43:36 AM

If Nick were to press what Cap's generation did in the past to counter Cap's criticism of him in the present, it probably would've made him look immature and even worse in comparison.

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon

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