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Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
Well I'm a realist.
(And I was sort of joking due to all the posts the last few months in the Bv S thread about how "We shouldn't trust any of these people that have actually seen the movie and say Wonder Woman rules!")
Quick question: Having only "heard about" the Civil War comics and not read them (I realized that the initials also stand for the Flarrowverse network, gotta be careful), are both sides of the conflict pictured equally right and wrong - ala, I don't know, Princess Mononoke or The Prestige - or do we expect a clear-cut line between good guys and bad guys?
Also, this is the first MCU trailer that makes me genuinely excited about a movie in a long while. I think that the last might have been the first Avengers (okay, GOTG intrigued me but it looked too weird to count as "classical" excitement).
According to everything I have heard, the event in the comics was seriously mishandled. It was meant to be ambiguous, but the man orchestrating it (Mark Millar) foolishly thought that people would side with Tony by default so he felt he had to make him kick a few dogs to make the conflict more ambiguous. So basically you had The Iron Fascist vs Captain America. I have not personally read it, but this is the consensus I have found so far.
The conflict as portrayed in the MCU is supposed to be much more ambiguous.
edited 11th Mar '16 12:43:58 PM by wehrmacht
I've heard critism that the splash page shot in the trailer falls flat because there's only Eleven people having a punch up on some tarmac.
I'd say it's clear the splash page is cut early before we see the collision and THAT will be the money shot. But that doesn't negate their critism of the trailer.
It's not like you'd want more characters in a movie. It's a reason why the films can't perfectly emulate the comics medium.
With The Prestige, its conflict, in my opinion, looked like: "Borden is a bit of a jerk who made a genuine mistake then plays dirty, and his rival Angier grows more and more monstrous trying to get revenge."
With the Civil War comics, it was more like: "Captain America is Captain America while Iron Man dives off the deep end into Iron Fascist, but the story treats it as 'balanced'."
Eh, Captain America dove off the deep end too. His side was just more relatable because they were fighting for everything superhero fans loves about superhero works. He still had ridiculous moments like his "never compromise on anything ever" speech to Spider-Man.
Ideology like, "When the press, the government, and the mob are telling you to move, it's your responsibility as an American to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth and say no, YOU move!" is exactly how we got things like the Bundy Standoff.
And then there were things like their treatment of supervillains. Iron Man had supervillains with nanochain leashes working for the Pro-Reg side, who would be electrocuted into submission if they went off mission. Captain America had the Punisher working for the Pro-Vigilante side until the Punisher inevitably murdered some supervillains, prompting Cap to beat the shit out of him and kick him out - but not actually apprehend him in any meaningful way.
Iron Man was incarcerating superheroes without trial, Captain America fired a missile at NYC.
edited 11th Mar '16 12:57:23 PM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.I hate that speech.
We live in a country where everyone plants themselves besides a river of truth and nothing ever fucking gets done.
edited 11th Mar '16 12:58:56 PM by Wackd
Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.Yes, that one, thanks. He gave a lovely speech about how the will of a Republic is that of its citizens and then resumed attempting to overcome a democratic law by punching people until it stops existing.
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.The intended message Millar was going for was that Tony was right because even if he was doing horrible things, he was going them because he genuinely thought it was the only way to keep people safe, whereas Cap was arrogant and only wanted to prove he was right.
The finale was a very Anvilicious scene where Cap is about to finish Tony, but then a group of screaming response workers and civilians pull him off and beg him to stop. Then he looks up and sees the fight has ravaged the surrounding area and hurt civilians, leading to a My God, What Have I Done? moment.
Millar cared so little for Cap's side that he didn't even give him a victory condition.
Tony's victory condition was simple. Enough superheroes register or are incarcerated for their vigilantism that the people start to feel safe again. Any overly harsh or plainly evil measures like a Sentinel Program get vetoed by him directly. Superheroes with badges act as emergency responders, saving lives, arresting criminals, testifying in courts, etc. Superpowered criminals are locked away in a prison they'll never be able to escape from. The world becomes a better place.
Steve's victory condition consisted of
- Everyone have a secret identity and punch crime.
- If the law comes for you, punch them.
- Get superheroes out of jail via large-scale prison breaks.
- ???
- Registration gets repealed somehow.
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His point about how just because the law says something is right doesn't make it so is correct, but the problem is that it opens up a huge can of worms about what is or isn't "right".
Which is a testament to how poorly he wrote and handled the event that most people still came out supporting Cap.
edited 11th Mar '16 1:12:35 PM by comicwriter
And then Maria Hill tried to arrest Cap for breaking a law that hadn't been passed yet.
It was just a really dumb point of time in general.
Forever liveblogging the Avengers

However, firemen do sometimes let houses burn down because its not in their territory even if they were first on the scene.
But for superhero bureaucracy made fun, read Avengers vol 2 #56 by Kurt Busiek. Its a hoot.
Forever liveblogging the Avengers