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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#53001: Mar 11th 2016 at 11:47:34 AM

However, firemen do sometimes let houses burn down because its not in their territory even if they were first on the scene.

But for superhero bureaucracy made fun, read Avengers vol 2 #56 by Kurt Busiek. Its a hoot.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
LordofLore Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
#53003: Mar 11th 2016 at 11:49:19 AM

What else would he say? He's working for the same company.[lol]

(He'll be good)

edited 11th Mar '16 11:51:29 AM by LordofLore

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#53006: Mar 11th 2016 at 11:53:36 AM

[up][up][up] True, but he has been very enthusiastic about the movie for a while now. He has basically promoted the movie as if it were his own, which is way more than you would usually expect.

edited 11th Mar '16 11:53:45 AM by Swanpride

LordofLore Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
#53007: Mar 11th 2016 at 11:54:00 AM

Well I'm a realist.

(And I was sort of joking due to all the posts the last few months in the Bv S thread about how "We shouldn't trust any of these people that have actually seen the movie and say Wonder Woman rules!")

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#53008: Mar 11th 2016 at 11:55:44 AM

[up] You mean those anonymous people who are the source of the rumour that Wonder Woman rules? Not the same thing. Not even remotely.

LordofLore Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
#53009: Mar 11th 2016 at 11:56:48 AM

The press people, other directors, writers, actors etc have names you know. Even normal people have seen it. We've posted impressions for a while. The anons from months back are pretty much proven.

edited 11th Mar '16 11:59:14 AM by LordofLore

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#53010: Mar 11th 2016 at 12:12:14 PM

It made be me and my pro empire vein here but all I can read in that tweet is "blah,blah,blah look how traitor Im! blah,blah,blah cap is the best!"

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Julep Since: Jul, 2010
#53011: Mar 11th 2016 at 12:40:37 PM

Quick question: Having only "heard about" the Civil War comics and not read them (I realized that the initials also stand for the Flarrowverse network, gotta be careful), are both sides of the conflict pictured equally right and wrong - ala, I don't know, Princess Mononoke or The Prestige - or do we expect a clear-cut line between good guys and bad guys?

Also, this is the first MCU trailer that makes me genuinely excited about a movie in a long while. I think that the last might have been the first Avengers (okay, GOTG intrigued me but it looked too weird to count as "classical" excitement).

wehrmacht belongs to the hurricane from the garden of everything Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
belongs to the hurricane
#53012: Mar 11th 2016 at 12:43:31 PM

According to everything I have heard, the event in the comics was seriously mishandled. It was meant to be ambiguous, but the man orchestrating it (Mark Millar) foolishly thought that people would side with Tony by default so he felt he had to make him kick a few dogs to make the conflict more ambiguous. So basically you had The Iron Fascist vs Captain America. I have not personally read it, but this is the consensus I have found so far.

The conflict as portrayed in the MCU is supposed to be much more ambiguous.

edited 11th Mar '16 12:43:58 PM by wehrmacht

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#53013: Mar 11th 2016 at 12:44:17 PM

Iron Man's side was originally assumed to be the side the readers would side with so his side engaged in puppy-kicking to balance it out. This had the opposite effect of making Iron Man and his side look like a bunch of douchenozzles.

[nja]

edited 11th Mar '16 12:44:42 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#53014: Mar 11th 2016 at 12:44:58 PM

I've heard critism that the splash page shot in the trailer falls flat because there's only Eleven people having a punch up on some tarmac.

I'd say it's clear the splash page is cut early before we see the collision and THAT will be the money shot. But that doesn't negate their critism of the trailer.

It's not like you'd want more characters in a movie. It's a reason why the films can't perfectly emulate the comics medium.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#53015: Mar 11th 2016 at 12:49:02 PM

With The Prestige, its conflict, in my opinion, looked like: "Borden is a bit of a jerk who made a genuine mistake then plays dirty, and his rival Angier grows more and more monstrous trying to get revenge."

With the Civil War comics, it was more like: "Captain America is Captain America while Iron Man dives off the deep end into Iron Fascist, but the story treats it as 'balanced'."

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#53017: Mar 11th 2016 at 12:51:56 PM

Eh, Captain America dove off the deep end too. His side was just more relatable because they were fighting for everything superhero fans loves about superhero works. He still had ridiculous moments like his "never compromise on anything ever" speech to Spider-Man.

Ideology like, "When the press, the government, and the mob are telling you to move, it's your responsibility as an American to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth and say no, YOU move!" is exactly how we got things like the Bundy Standoff.

And then there were things like their treatment of supervillains. Iron Man had supervillains with nanochain leashes working for the Pro-Reg side, who would be electrocuted into submission if they went off mission. Captain America had the Punisher working for the Pro-Vigilante side until the Punisher inevitably murdered some supervillains, prompting Cap to beat the shit out of him and kick him out - but not actually apprehend him in any meaningful way.

Iron Man was incarcerating superheroes without trial, Captain America fired a missile at NYC.

edited 11th Mar '16 12:57:23 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
LordofLore Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
#53018: Mar 11th 2016 at 12:56:29 PM

This is the full speech btw. It sucks like Tobias already said.

CW and post-CW was a hard time for Peter and his family in the comics(with OMD the result of it). At least we got this "fight" out of it.

edited 11th Mar '16 1:00:34 PM by LordofLore

Wackd Since: May, 2009
#53019: Mar 11th 2016 at 12:58:43 PM

I hate that speech.

We live in a country where everyone plants themselves besides a river of truth and nothing ever fucking gets done.

edited 11th Mar '16 12:58:56 PM by Wackd

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#53020: Mar 11th 2016 at 1:00:36 PM

Yes, that one, thanks. He gave a lovely speech about how the will of a Republic is that of its citizens and then resumed attempting to overcome a democratic law by punching people until it stops existing.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#53021: Mar 11th 2016 at 1:01:10 PM

The intended message Millar was going for was that Tony was right because even if he was doing horrible things, he was going them because he genuinely thought it was the only way to keep people safe, whereas Cap was arrogant and only wanted to prove he was right.

The finale was a very Anvilicious scene where Cap is about to finish Tony, but then a group of screaming response workers and civilians pull him off and beg him to stop. Then he looks up and sees the fight has ravaged the surrounding area and hurt civilians, leading to a My God, What Have I Done? moment.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#53022: Mar 11th 2016 at 1:02:52 PM

The river of truth speech is one of those things that sounds inspirational only if it's coming from Captain America. But anyone else can say it and then we have problems with fighting each other over where the river is all over again,

edited 11th Mar '16 1:03:44 PM by Tuckerscreator

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#53023: Mar 11th 2016 at 1:06:13 PM

Millar cared so little for Cap's side that he didn't even give him a victory condition.

Tony's victory condition was simple. Enough superheroes register or are incarcerated for their vigilantism that the people start to feel safe again. Any overly harsh or plainly evil measures like a Sentinel Program get vetoed by him directly. Superheroes with badges act as emergency responders, saving lives, arresting criminals, testifying in courts, etc. Superpowered criminals are locked away in a prison they'll never be able to escape from. The world becomes a better place.

Steve's victory condition consisted of

  • Everyone have a secret identity and punch crime.
  • If the law comes for you, punch them.
  • Get superheroes out of jail via large-scale prison breaks.
  • ???
  • Registration gets repealed somehow.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#53024: Mar 11th 2016 at 1:07:00 PM

[up][up]His point about how just because the law says something is right doesn't make it so is correct, but the problem is that it opens up a huge can of worms about what is or isn't "right".

[up]Which is a testament to how poorly he wrote and handled the event that most people still came out supporting Cap.

edited 11th Mar '16 1:12:35 PM by comicwriter

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#53025: Mar 11th 2016 at 1:26:04 PM

And then Maria Hill tried to arrest Cap for breaking a law that hadn't been passed yet.

It was just a really dumb point of time in general.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers

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