Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules
still apply.
- This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
- While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread
. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
- Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.
If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.
Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
It's them messing with its head after it killed Goliath
You mean by trying to re-program it so it wouldn't kill someone again? What were they supposed to do, let it continue to be a killer?
not telling people it isn't their old friend who has gone crazy(it takes Hercules smashing its head in for that to be revealed)
It's not exactly easy to explain anything to a side you are fighting and trying to arrest. Also, I read the book; Cap and a good chunk of his side already had guessed it was a clone. Hercules wouldn't have even tried to smash its head had he not known it wasn't the real Thor.
and actually cloning a god without asking if it was the right thing to do.
You mean like cloning Superman to get him a replacement after he was killed at the end of All-Star Superman? You know, an action that was not portrayed as wrong in the slightest?
They shouldn't have made it in the first place, was the point.
Thor coming back and dealing Tony a No-Holds-Barred Beatdown was one of the most cathartic things Marvel published in years
◊.
edited 11th Mar '16 8:41:51 AM by comicwriter
I'm on Toby's side at the moment. It's politically scary that the Avengers exist as these incredibly powerful people, who are not democratically overseen at all.
At the same time, do we really want moronic politicians giving the Avengers orders? You only need to look at current politics to know why that would be a very, very bad idea.
Yeah, Tony using the DNA of one of his friends to create a superweapon, then unleashing it on his other ex-friends and killing one of them while still trying to uphold the pretense of solving this peacefully, was the moment I checked out of Civil War.
It wasn't even just that he did it, it was how the writers didn't seem to think that was as messed up as it really was and so portrayed it more a just another thing that went out of control and resulted in a C-List Fodder death on the way to the climax. That whole event should've been the big turning point of the entire storyline, instead of ultimately being build-up.
edited 11th Mar '16 9:15:33 AM by KnownUnknown
They shouldn't have made it in the first place, was the point.
No, it's not. It's an affirmation from you people. To which I still answer with the same question: WHY shouldn't they have made him?
Yeah, Tony using the DNA of one of his friends to create a superweapon, then unleashing it on his other ex-friends and killing one of them while still trying to uphold the pretense of solving this peacefully, was the moment I checked out of Civil War.
The killing of Goliath was an accident and wasn't intentional. Also you are conventiently neglecting the fact he tried to solve the conflict peacefully before that scene and Cap answered by hacking his armor and punching him.
edited 11th Mar '16 9:17:38 AM by Theokal3
Tony built the thing. He set the thing off on them. It's his direct responsibility what it does on his orders.
Even if he didn't think Clor would seriously hurt them, it's akin to throwing a grenade at a bunch of people with the expectation that they would get out of the way. Should one of them fail to and die, or should the grenade go off early, or maybe the wrong one was tossed, it's still the fault of the person who turned the weapon on them in the first place.
Who's forgetting? The fact that he created and fully expected to use Clor long before Cap punched him showed that he was, ultimately, geared up for overwhelming force.
That's the thing about speaking softly and carrying a big stick. The talk is just the pretense.
edited 11th Mar '16 9:23:55 AM by KnownUnknown
A grenad is unlikely to not kill people; Thor actually can incapacitate people in non-lethal ways.They expected the clone to act like Thor and as such kill nobody in this battle. It wasn't supposed to kill Goliath and they were visibly upset he did. I won't deny Tony (and Richards and Fake Pym- because just to remind you, Tony wasn't the only one in this) had his fault, I am denying the fact it was an EVIL action and makes him deserving of being called a facist.
You're exaggerating what people are saying.
Clor isn't what made Tony look like a fascist in that story. It made him look like a person willing to unleash hell on his friends if it meant upholding what he believed in, and ultimately made him look like a difficult person to trust unless you followed the beat of his drum.
If it was an "accident," it also shows him to be an entirely irresponsible person willing to use force but not willing to check himself.
As
said, the prisons and such were bigger nails in the coffin for his "facist" appearance.
edited 11th Mar '16 9:28:16 AM by KnownUnknown
I pretty clearly read the facist and iron furher part in this conversation.
Also, regarding the prison, I still think "facist" is a big word, but... yeah, this one feels a bit harder to defend. Stark DOES give a good argument that any other prison would be easy to escape, but that doesn't justify sending them here without any trial.
edited 11th Mar '16 9:31:37 AM by Theokal3
![]()
Why would he need a limitation? It's not like he's a Superman-level hero. I mean, he technically is rather weak compared to most super-powered Avengers.
Very Melon clearly said "Iron Furher". Now maybe he's right and I misinterpreted it, but I think it was pretty obvious what he meant. But whatever.
edited 11th Mar '16 9:34:59 AM by Theokal3
![]()
He did? I admit I only saw the Animated version of All-Star Superman, and I don't remember Superman mentioning that anywhere. I guess it happened in the comic?
Not really. I was just saying I don't understand why people get so pissed about that part. But alright.
edited 11th Mar '16 9:38:11 AM by Theokal3

Maybe a a clone Hitler?
Cut off one head 2 more shall take it's place! Hail Hydra