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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

DarthSion Statement: All meatbags must die from Slokovia Since: Mar, 2016 Relationship Status: All is for my lord
Statement: All meatbags must die
#52951: Mar 11th 2016 at 8:28:54 AM

Maybe a a clone Hitler?

Cut off one head 2 more shall take it's place! Hail Hydra
LordofLore Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
#52952: Mar 11th 2016 at 8:31:01 AM

Well, after the "death" of Cap in the comics we had the Red Skull try to take over his body IIRC.

Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#52953: Mar 11th 2016 at 8:35:54 AM

It's them messing with its head after it killed Goliath

You mean by trying to re-program it so it wouldn't kill someone again? What were they supposed to do, let it continue to be a killer?

not telling people it isn't their old friend who has gone crazy(it takes Hercules smashing its head in for that to be revealed)

It's not exactly easy to explain anything to a side you are fighting and trying to arrest. Also, I read the book; Cap and a good chunk of his side already had guessed it was a clone. Hercules wouldn't have even tried to smash its head had he not known it wasn't the real Thor.

and actually cloning a god without asking if it was the right thing to do.

You mean like cloning Superman to get him a replacement after he was killed at the end of All-Star Superman? You know, an action that was not portrayed as wrong in the slightest?

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#52954: Mar 11th 2016 at 8:40:09 AM

They shouldn't have made it in the first place, was the point.

Thor coming back and dealing Tony a No-Holds-Barred Beatdown was one of the most cathartic things Marvel published in years.

edited 11th Mar '16 8:41:51 AM by comicwriter

Guy01 Since: Mar, 2015
#52955: Mar 11th 2016 at 9:02:50 AM

I'm on Toby's side at the moment. It's politically scary that the Avengers exist as these incredibly powerful people, who are not democratically overseen at all.

At the same time, do we really want moronic politicians giving the Avengers orders? You only need to look at current politics to know why that would be a very, very bad idea. tongue

Ok, who let Light Yagami in here?
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#52956: Mar 11th 2016 at 9:14:34 AM

Yeah, Tony using the DNA of one of his friends to create a superweapon, then unleashing it on his other ex-friends and killing one of them while still trying to uphold the pretense of solving this peacefully, was the moment I checked out of Civil War.

It wasn't even just that he did it, it was how the writers didn't seem to think that was as messed up as it really was and so portrayed it more a just another thing that went out of control and resulted in a C-List Fodder death on the way to the climax. That whole event should've been the big turning point of the entire storyline, instead of ultimately being build-up.

edited 11th Mar '16 9:15:33 AM by KnownUnknown

Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#52957: Mar 11th 2016 at 9:14:53 AM

They shouldn't have made it in the first place, was the point.

No, it's not. It's an affirmation from you people. To which I still answer with the same question: WHY shouldn't they have made him?

Yeah, Tony using the DNA of one of his friends to create a superweapon, then unleashing it on his other ex-friends and killing one of them while still trying to uphold the pretense of solving this peacefully, was the moment I checked out of Civil War.

The killing of Goliath was an accident and wasn't intentional. Also you are conventiently neglecting the fact he tried to solve the conflict peacefully before that scene and Cap answered by hacking his armor and punching him.

edited 11th Mar '16 9:17:38 AM by Theokal3

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#52958: Mar 11th 2016 at 9:21:00 AM

The killing of Goliath was an accident and wasn't intentional

Tony built the thing. He set the thing off on them. It's his direct responsibility what it does on his orders.

Even if he didn't think Clor would seriously hurt them, it's akin to throwing a grenade at a bunch of people with the expectation that they would get out of the way. Should one of them fail to and die, or should the grenade go off early, or maybe the wrong one was tossed, it's still the fault of the person who turned the weapon on them in the first place.

Also you are conventiently neglecting the fact he tried to solve the conflict peacefully before that scene and Cap answered by hacking his armor and punching him.

Who's forgetting? The fact that he created and fully expected to use Clor long before Cap punched him showed that he was, ultimately, geared up for overwhelming force.

That's the thing about speaking softly and carrying a big stick. The talk is just the pretense.

edited 11th Mar '16 9:23:55 AM by KnownUnknown

Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#52959: Mar 11th 2016 at 9:23:46 AM

A grenad is unlikely to not kill people; Thor actually can incapacitate people in non-lethal ways.They expected the clone to act like Thor and as such kill nobody in this battle. It wasn't supposed to kill Goliath and they were visibly upset he did. I won't deny Tony (and Richards and Fake Pym- because just to remind you, Tony wasn't the only one in this) had his fault, I am denying the fact it was an EVIL action and makes him deserving of being called a facist.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#52960: Mar 11th 2016 at 9:24:31 AM

Tony wasn't the only one in this) had his fault, I am denying the fact it was an EVIL action and makes him deserving of being called a facist.

You're exaggerating what people are saying.

Clor isn't what made Tony look like a fascist in that story. It made him look like a person willing to unleash hell on his friends if it meant upholding what he believed in, and ultimately made him look like a difficult person to trust unless you followed the beat of his drum.

If it was an "accident," it also shows him to be an entirely irresponsible person willing to use force but not willing to check himself.

As [down] said, the prisons and such were bigger nails in the coffin for his "facist" appearance.

edited 11th Mar '16 9:28:16 AM by KnownUnknown

Guy01 Since: Mar, 2015
#52961: Mar 11th 2016 at 9:24:36 AM

[up]What about the prisons? tongue

Ok, who let Light Yagami in here?
Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#52962: Mar 11th 2016 at 9:27:33 AM

[up][up]I am exaggerating people calling him Iron Furher and saying he was a fascist? Yeah, I don't think so. I saw this written both on this site and in other places.

[up]You mean, the Negative Zone prison?

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#52963: Mar 11th 2016 at 9:28:48 AM

You are in a conversation that's happening right now, not one that's happening elsewhere.

edited 11th Mar '16 9:30:31 AM by KnownUnknown

Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#52964: Mar 11th 2016 at 9:30:04 AM

[up]I pretty clearly read the facist and iron furher part in this conversation.

Also, regarding the prison, I still think "facist" is a big word, but... yeah, this one feels a bit harder to defend. Stark DOES give a good argument that any other prison would be easy to escape, but that doesn't justify sending them here without any trial.

edited 11th Mar '16 9:31:37 AM by Theokal3

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#52965: Mar 11th 2016 at 9:30:40 AM

You're also misreading what I said about Tony making the clone.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#52966: Mar 11th 2016 at 9:30:47 AM

One of the reasons I am very much pro the webshooters is because it is a limitation on Spider-man's abilities. He already has superstrength, a healing factor, spider-senses and the ability to move very fast. It's nice that there is at least the possibility that he runs out on webs once in a while.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#52967: Mar 11th 2016 at 9:31:27 AM

[up][up][up] Looking back on the last couple pages, the first time such a thing was brought up is when you brought it up.

edited 11th Mar '16 9:31:47 AM by KnownUnknown

Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#52968: Mar 11th 2016 at 9:32:47 AM

[up][up]Why would he need a limitation? It's not like he's a Superman-level hero. I mean, he technically is rather weak compared to most super-powered Avengers.

[up]Very Melon clearly said "Iron Furher". Now maybe he's right and I misinterpreted it, but I think it was pretty obvious what he meant. But whatever.

edited 11th Mar '16 9:34:59 AM by Theokal3

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#52969: Mar 11th 2016 at 9:35:46 AM

You mean like cloning Superman to get him a replacement after he was killed at the end of All-Star Superman? You know, an action that was not portrayed as wrong in the slightest?
I think you are misremembering All-Star Superman. It is Superman himself who approves a human-Kryptonian clone before he dies. Thor never approved a clone of himself and was, in fact, disgusted to find out what Tony had done.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#52970: Mar 11th 2016 at 9:36:52 AM

[up][up]I said it was "one" of the things that marked Tony as Iron Fuhrer. You took that to mean it was either the main thing or the only thing.

edited 11th Mar '16 9:37:08 AM by VeryMelon

Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#52971: Mar 11th 2016 at 9:37:07 AM

[up][up]He did? I admit I only saw the Animated version of All-Star Superman, and I don't remember Superman mentioning that anywhere. I guess it happened in the comic?

[up]Not really. I was just saying I don't understand why people get so pissed about that part. But alright.

edited 11th Mar '16 9:38:11 AM by Theokal3

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#52972: Mar 11th 2016 at 9:37:35 AM

[up][up][up] And kicked his ass in one of my favorite moments in recent Marvel history.

edited 11th Mar '16 9:37:45 AM by KnownUnknown

nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#52973: Mar 11th 2016 at 9:38:00 AM

I can imagine Steve being mighty pissed at Tony if he finds out the newest member of his team is age 15.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#52974: Mar 11th 2016 at 9:39:35 AM

He did? I admit I only saw the Animated version of All-Star Superman, and I don't remember Superman mentioning that anywhere. I guess it happened in the comic?
Yes, it was part of the comic that I don't think they adapted, but it was in there: Superman gives a vial of Kryptonian/human DNA to Leo Quintum and Quintum asks why, that he could be "the devil himself" for all Superman knew, but Superman trusted him. This was, in fact, one of the clues that Leo Quintum is a future redeemed version of Lex Luthor.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#52975: Mar 11th 2016 at 9:39:41 AM

Not really. I was just saying I don't understand why people get so pissed about that part. But alright.

Well now you know, even if you don't agree with it.


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