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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#52851: Mar 10th 2016 at 3:36:36 PM

People still hate his Avengers costume and I'm like whaaaaaaaat

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#52852: Mar 10th 2016 at 3:37:24 PM

My main issue with the idea of Zemo deliberately trying to set the heroes into Civil War is that I'm not clear on what Zemo would stand to gain. "Destroy the heroes!" and then...what? What's the endgame? How does this benefit him?

Going off the idea that this is (in part) a plan to discredit the Avengers so as to install the Thunderbolts as their replacements, it would put him in a position of influence over the governments of the world (essentially putting him where Tony is now) and leave him poised to do... whatever it is the Thunderbolts would do in a future movie.

And ruin Captain America, of course.

edited 10th Mar '16 3:37:35 PM by KnownUnknown

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#52853: Mar 10th 2016 at 3:41:24 PM

I'd thought that perhaps Civil War could end with the Avengers disbanded or branded fugitives, and in the gap Zemo tries to push his Thunderbolts as their replacement.

Basically, you have him take Norman Osborn's role as the guy who steps into the power vacuum and works the situation to his advantage.

"Unlike those reckless and arrogant Avengers, the Thunderbolts are heroes for the people!"

edited 10th Mar '16 3:41:55 PM by comicwriter

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#52854: Mar 10th 2016 at 3:54:03 PM

In regards to Zemo's plan: I'm pretty sure he's going to be taking advantage of the situation to instill himself into a position of power. Why? Who knows. Maybe revenge, maybe to fulfill some Hydra plan, maybe because he fucking feels like it. All I can tell you is that no matter who wins the Civil War, be it Team Stark or Team Rodgers, it'll be a pyrrhic victory. Stark would probably disgrace himself for causing a lot of collateral damage in the ensuing battle, Rodgers would probably wind up arrested for going against the government, and thus The Avengers are disbanded and Zemo swoops in with the Thunderbolts.

Then this could hopefully play into the rumors that Infinity War Part 1 is gonna have a new lineup of Avengers fighting the Masters of Evil before Thanos shows up and things go to shit.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#52855: Mar 10th 2016 at 4:26:59 PM

To be specific about the number of casualties:

74 in New York

23 in Washington

177 in Sokovia

Anyone else think that scene's going to include mention of more events and places than just these three?

edited 10th Mar '16 4:32:53 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#52856: Mar 10th 2016 at 4:32:26 PM

Are the casualty numbers on the videos in the trailer?

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#52857: Mar 10th 2016 at 4:33:31 PM

Yes. On the far right-hand side of each video.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#52858: Mar 10th 2016 at 4:42:39 PM

There's also dollars worth of damage caused listed. I still find the death numbers insanely low, also the absence of any footage relating to Johannesburg is kinda notable.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Falrinn Since: Dec, 2014
#52859: Mar 10th 2016 at 4:49:05 PM

Zemo's plans might end up being more of the Let No Crisis Go to Waste variety rather then manipulating the conflict itself.

So his original plans might of been completely different on paper, but he simply takes advantage of the Avengers being involved in a violent ideological conflict to accelerate his plans considerably.

As for what his endgame is, it could be your standard WORLD DOMINATION agenda, perhaps following Hydra's ideology or something derived from it. His methods will ultimately be modeled off of the Avengers themselves, and he'll start assembling the MCU Masters of Evil.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#52860: Mar 10th 2016 at 4:51:01 PM

[up][up]Maybe he chose examples Captain America was specifically involved in?

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#52861: Mar 10th 2016 at 4:53:44 PM

Yeah, the property damage is a bit higher:

$18,800,000,000 worth of damages in New York

$2,800,000,000 worth of damages in D.C.

$474,000,000,000 worth of damages in Sokovia

Again, I'm expecting to see other places and events than these three mentioned in the scene proper, though.

edited 10th Mar '16 4:56:03 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#52862: Mar 10th 2016 at 4:59:55 PM

[up][up][up]

Yeah. If Zemo was directly responsible for the split between in the Avengers, rather than taking advantage of preexisting ideological divides between them, then it risks undermining all the character development they've gone through and makes them all look like fools holding the Idiot Ball or Conflict Ball.

edvedd Darling. from At the boutique, dear. Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#52864: Mar 10th 2016 at 5:32:20 PM

As do I. Most complaints about it looking like flat CGI evocative of a PS 2/PS 1 are from people not watching the trailer in 1080p anyways.

dantecito Since: Dec, 2014
#52865: Mar 10th 2016 at 5:34:19 PM

The three candites for the role of Big Bad are Ross, Crossbones and Zemo.

The funny thing is that in the original comic, Zemo was a mere lackey.

edited 10th Mar '16 5:36:32 PM by dantecito

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#52866: Mar 10th 2016 at 5:36:02 PM

Honestly, I get why some people don't like it, but I think it looks fine.

They were trying to go for the MCU's patented Truer to the Text costuming style while also trying to make it look different from the Sony costumes (which were already extremely accurate), so they're doing something that looks very close to the comics while at the same time being distinct from the previous ones.

[up]I suspect Crossbones is just a Starter Villain.

edited 10th Mar '16 5:36:33 PM by comicwriter

edvedd Darling. from At the boutique, dear. Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
Darling.
#52867: Mar 10th 2016 at 5:38:42 PM

I like that Black Panther's reaction to being fired at by a machine gun is "Oh, what IS this bullshit?''

edited 10th Mar '16 5:47:21 PM by edvedd

Visit my Tumblr! I may say things. The Bureau Project
KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#52868: Mar 10th 2016 at 5:44:31 PM

I also think that Zemo wants to split up and discredit the Avengers so that he can put himself in a position of power, maybe involving the Thunderbolts (the fact that they're getting a new book makes it a distinct possibility, at least). What exactly he plans to due with said power is a matter of debate. Certainly, getting rid of the Avengers would be to his benefit, seeing how quickly they took down von Strucker.

Anyway, a bit of a weird question that occurred to me earlier today - would anybody like to see the song "Space Oddity" appear in Captain Marvel? I think it would suit her.

edited 10th Mar '16 5:45:13 PM by KarkatTheDalek

Oh God! Natural light!
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#52869: Mar 10th 2016 at 5:52:12 PM

Since this thought I'm about to post is most certainly a crackpot theory, I'm going to be using the WMG symbol for it.

wild mass guess Zemo is working with Thanos and is planning on keeping the Earth safe by acting as the Quisling wild mass guess

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
edvedd Darling. from At the boutique, dear. Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#52871: Mar 10th 2016 at 5:53:20 PM

Having the Thunderbolts team's introduction be the very end of the movie when they replace the Avengers would mirror the end of Age of Ultron beautifully, although I (and others) would probably complain that the latest Avengers line-up didn't get enough time to show off and a lack of a movie fighting the Thunderbolts in the works would mean that they're just kind of there, not doing anything until Infinity War at the minimum.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#52872: Mar 10th 2016 at 6:09:12 PM

It's a shame the new Avengers lineup was introduced right before Civil War. The first thing they do is inherit the problems of the last group and then the team splits with half of them becoming fugitives.

edited 10th Mar '16 6:09:37 PM by KnownUnknown

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#52873: Mar 10th 2016 at 6:13:04 PM

Though presumably they would appear in Infinity War anyway.

TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#52874: Mar 10th 2016 at 7:05:57 PM

Watching Andre the Black Nerd reviewing the trailer got me thinking.

Is Tony saying "Underoos" to call Spider-Man supposed to be a Mythology Gag to when Spidey would appear in The Electric Company?

dantecito Since: Dec, 2014
#52875: Mar 10th 2016 at 7:07:02 PM

Crazy Theory: Zemo is son of Red Skull/ Strucker / Heinz Kruger / Alexander Pierce.

Although the third example would be an heroic example of But for Me, It Was Tuesday

  • Zemo: Captain America, You killed my father.
  • Captain America: Who was your father?
  • Zemo: Heinz Kruger.
  • Captain America: I have no idea who this is.

edited 10th Mar '16 7:08:01 PM by dantecito


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