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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

LordofLore Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
#52176: Feb 26th 2016 at 3:14:53 PM

[up]I like that they say Phyla was the original Captain Marvel(she's really the fourth).

(Also having the ONLY lesbian superhero in the MCU(unless Carol is in love with Jessica Drew like even the comics sometimes joke about) die to give someone else power would probably be a bad way to start a new mini franchise)

edited 26th Feb '16 4:01:50 PM by LordofLore

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#52177: Feb 26th 2016 at 3:18:46 PM

I would weep and never stop weeping.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#52178: Feb 26th 2016 at 3:19:38 PM

I know it's hysterical. "It would be progressive for Marvel to introduce a gay superhero and then have her die in the very next movie so a straight girl can take her name and powers."

In addition to the poor research in general.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#52179: Feb 26th 2016 at 3:30:25 PM

Hey, maybe the hypothetical lesbian character is garbage for reasons unrelated to her sexuality and the new straight character is fantastic (no shots at Phyla here, just playing Devil's Advocate).

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#52180: Feb 26th 2016 at 3:35:26 PM

I will fite you

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#52181: Feb 26th 2016 at 3:36:37 PM

[up][up]It's not really likely regardless, because the whole article is full of Critical Research Failure. Phyla-Vell was not the original Captain Marvel nor was she the one Carol got her powers from.

So if the story were to set it up so that Carol gets her powers from Phyla, they'd essentially be courting controversy and shooting themselves in the foot for no reason (since you can't even argue "We're just sticking to the comics!" this time).

edited 26th Feb '16 3:36:48 PM by comicwriter

LordofLore Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
#52182: Feb 26th 2016 at 3:40:03 PM

Btw, what happened to that lesbian couple on JJ that was supposed to show up(haven't watched the series yet due to my viewing partner having another show to see first before we can start)? Did one or both of them die like was rumored before it came out(did one of them turn into a villain)?

The MCU really sucks when it comes to LGBTQ characters(didn't Feige say we might see our first heroic character on the big screen in a decade?).

edited 26th Feb '16 4:02:56 PM by LordofLore

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#52183: Feb 26th 2016 at 3:53:53 PM

I'm just saying that homosexuality does not a better character make any more than other races do. Which is none. Equality for the win!

LordofLore Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
#52184: Feb 26th 2016 at 4:06:08 PM

Phyla has a sword and a dragon girlfriend. Carol lacks a sword and is together with War Machine of all people. Therefore Phyla>Carol.

Wackd Since: May, 2009
#52185: Feb 26th 2016 at 4:08:04 PM

Btw, what happened to that lesbian couple on JJ that was supposed to show up(haven't watched the series yet due to my viewing partner having another show to see first before we can start)? Did one or both of them die like was rumored before it came out(did one of them turn into a villain)?
The main lesbian was a terrible person from the outset, and the only dead lesbian was unattached when she died.

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#52187: Feb 26th 2016 at 4:14:11 PM

The main lesbian was a terrible person from the outset, and the only dead lesbian was unattached when she died.
There were three lesbians in the show: one of them died, one of them ended up in jail, and one of them got away scott free! Well, aside from the fact that her wife was dead and her girlfriend in jail.

But also Agents of SHIELD has a gay character and he's still alive and healthy!

Phyla has a sword and a dragon girlfriend. Carol lacks a sword and is together with War Machine of all people. Therefore Phyla>Carol.
Phyla is also super dead in the comics. Carol isn't. Therefore Carol wins!

edited 26th Feb '16 4:14:48 PM by alliterator

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#52188: Feb 26th 2016 at 4:15:18 PM

From the Empire article on Civil War:

"We worked hard to figure out very specific reasons why these characters would get pushed to one side or the other," said Anthony Russo. He also added: "Spectacle can only carry you so far. If you don’t have character then it’s empty spectacle and the movie starts to run out of gas pretty quickly. You can only watch so many explosions and unmotivated car crashes."

Can I just say how ridiculously happy I am to see them say that? Both parts of that statement?

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#52189: Feb 26th 2016 at 4:16:26 PM

MICHAEL BAY: ...I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of more explosions.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#52190: Feb 26th 2016 at 4:19:50 PM

[up][up]Very good to hear.

The MCU really sucks when it comes to LGBTQ characters(didn't Feige say we might see our first heroic character on the big screen in a decade?).

Yuuuup. I suspect part of that is the international box office.

LordofLore Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
#52191: Feb 26th 2016 at 4:24:08 PM

You sure it isn't the US that scares them? France and others are usually way more accepting of LGBTQ content than the US from what I've seen(I think one movie even got a rating higher in the US because a gay couple was in it IIRC).

China I can see not looking so fondly on it but as Deadpool pretty much said "Fuck them if they don't want to watch it" and now it has a quarter of what TFA pulled in which is more than quite a few other superhero movies.

Edit:[down]Like the other 50 countries in europe, Canada etc?

edited 26th Feb '16 4:38:43 PM by LordofLore

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#52192: Feb 26th 2016 at 4:29:46 PM

Define "and others". Europe perhaps, but there are some lucrative markets like China that are not big on that. We've already seen the lengths Marvel will go to in order to court the Chinese box office, so it's unlikely they'd do an expensive movie that can't be released over there.

edited 26th Feb '16 4:50:34 PM by comicwriter

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#52193: Feb 26th 2016 at 4:36:10 PM

Basically. The creator of Adventure Time said something similar.

In the clip, Ms. Olson says that she had been talking with Ward about Marceline’s character, and he casually mentioned that she and PB had dated. Olson’s immediate follow up question was whether the ladies’ relationship would ever be shown on screen. Sadly, in some countries where Adventure Time airs, it’s illegal to be in a same-sex relationship or even to be gay at all. While this is only an unfortunate side effect of a much larger problem, it is still disappointing news for many fans to hear. However, it is possible for the Bubbline romance to be mentioned in a future Adventure Time comic, so there is still hope!

[up][up][up]While the US does have a lot of people with backwards attitudes towards gay or other such people, outright Moral Guardians have a small fraction of the power they used to be able to wield over the media, and a lot of media aimed at younger audiences has gotten away with portraying gay relationships without upsetting any more than a very Vocal Minority. It's the risk of being Banned in China that's most likely holding Marvel back.

edited 26th Feb '16 4:39:33 PM by AlleyOop

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#52194: Feb 26th 2016 at 4:39:53 PM

She then said she was joking on her Twitter and deleted the tweet, I believe. And that hasn't stopped another CN series, Clarence, from showing a kid with two mothers or a gay couple. Even Gravity Falls's finale more or less confirmed two policemen as being gay.

And all I've heard Ward himself say is that he always saw them as just being friends. It's less hiding a lesbian relationship and more if it even is gay or not.

edited 26th Feb '16 4:44:54 PM by AdricDePsycho

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#52195: Feb 26th 2016 at 4:42:10 PM

China is nevertheless an important market. As is Japan, btw. Though Asians tend to be weirdly bi-polar in this regard. Ever seen the Korean trailers for Sherlock? They are cut together as if the show is about an epic love story (really, it's the kind of trailer you would normally expect from a fan).

Though, as far as I remember, Brokeback Mountain caused way more controversy in the US than international.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#52196: Feb 26th 2016 at 4:54:33 PM

To my knowledge, neither Japan nor Korea ban films or TV shows with LGBT content, that's just China. There was a Korean show last year that drew a lot of headlines for having the first instance of an onscreen lesbian kiss, and more recently I think Japan aired their first TV show about a lesbian couple.

And even then in those cases, thinking something is okay in fiction is not the same thing as being okay with it in real life. Ellen Page has a travel documentary series and the first episode had her exploring gay culture in Japan, where there's still a lot of discrimination. It was noted that despite there still being a lot of resistance and hostility towards LGBT people, things like Yuri and Yaoi paradoxically enjoy some measure of popularity. They talked to some women who said a major part of the appeal if the "forbidden romance" aspect of it.

China is a whole other ballgame because the censors wield much more power, and the things the censors deem to be offensive are notoriously hard to pin down.

edited 26th Feb '16 5:01:11 PM by comicwriter

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#52197: Feb 27th 2016 at 12:11:11 AM

[up]That's why I said that they are weirdly bi-polar about it.

wehrmacht belongs to the hurricane from the garden of everything Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
belongs to the hurricane
#52198: Feb 27th 2016 at 7:26:06 AM

...for some reason I was completely unaware of the fact that Scott Derickson, who's heading Doctor Strange, also directed Sinister.

As someone who actually enjoyed that movie I'm kind of excited for this now.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#52199: Feb 27th 2016 at 8:41:40 AM

Doctor Strange is the big question mark for me. The Director points into the direction of a horror movie. The cast is incredible talented. Everything I hear about the effects planed for it sounds frankly awesome. But the choice of the writers puzzles me. I always feel that the writers are just as important if not more so than the director (unless the director has some writing talent himself). Hopefully those writers were just unlucky to get credited for the wrong kind of projects so far....

MapleSamurai Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#52200: Feb 27th 2016 at 9:02:29 AM

I still maintain that Marvel should have called up Neil Gaiman and asked if he was still interested in writing a Doctor Strange movie. Just saying.


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